[1.3] Lib's Scion BM IG LL ST (7.0) 82.6k GMP / 116.8k LMP~ 129.2k GMP / 182.7k Buff

started playing a bit again and i still use this. Still great.

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stzbttln wrote:

started playing a bit again and i still use this. Still great.

Thanks Ddddime~

I Wouldn't be able to do it without your shield~

standard/hc league only due to legacy build.

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ment2008 wrote:

standard/hc league only due to legacy build.

Probably Quite rare to find enough mirrors on Hardcore~

But yeah~ this is more of a End of all Standard Build~ but the Concept is coherent for non BiS items~ Few guys before linked there sets before~

I am trying to find someone with similarly perfect gear yet mana version, so I could compare it, but could not find anyone :E

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qquno wrote:

I am trying to find someone with similarly perfect gear yet mana version, so I could compare it, but could not find anyone :E

Sorry, But I don't think Mana version is Actually viable right now~

"

tokimeki2003 wrote:

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qquno wrote:

I am trying to find someone with similarly perfect gear yet mana version, so I could compare it, but could not find anyone :E

Sorry, But I don't think Mana version is Actually viable right now~

Well, mana version spending less skill points on pathing to BM/extra auras nodes/hp regen, so you can spend it on DPS nodes or ES, but ofc you have less auras (solo), so its somewhat even out. In the party mana version on the other hand leech hatred/haste etc from party members, so you gonna have more DPS than BM guys.

But its all assumptions, and I rather want to see numbers. My current LL ST ranger have like 60-65k GMP (need to check it, since I use LMP most of the time), it have too much ES nodes since I am leveling and do not care about DPS that much, so at lvl 100 I can drop ES and get more DPS, not to mention what one of the rings does not have WED or any other DPS mods, belt have like 22% WED and amulet does not have spell damage :) So I pretty sure I can get ~70-80k GMP with better gear solo, and that similar to DPS you have, and in the party it most likely gonna exceed yours.

I hope you understand what I am not trying to bragging or something, just curious.

I'm not at all sure why you would say Mana version isn't viable.


Mana version is 100% viable and my preferred version as I've tried both.

If i were to mirror another ring and maybe get a carrion braid or an ammy of the likes, my gmp would be 90k+ ish and single would be 200k without a doubt.

both versions bm mc, and mana are viable. one is not necessarily better than the other by any means. in my honest opinion if i did have to chose one it would be the mana version in terms of qol, and safety. If i were to get a gloom call or onslaught song + the additional 45-47 es on a belt + second ring i could push my es up to around 8.5kish.

my es is higher, and dps is higher even without fully mirrored gear, yet i dont have the luxury of haste which is a con, but when playing in a full party almost 99.9% of the time someone will have haste pushing these numbers above and beyond, where as bm mc is more so the buffer as opposed to the buffee.

uber with my gear and spec is as smooth as it can be, no problems ever. done nearly 100+ after 1.3.

I'm curious to hear as to why you don't think mana is "viable" i think that's an awful strong word for something that is in this case above par compared to your spec. I'm not trying to say that I am better, or my build is better by any means, please don't take it that way because both specs are absolutely fantastic, its just that's quite a bit of misinformation for people that are trying to chose which version they would like to run so hopefully this gives a clearer understanding as to the similarities and differences between the two aswell as shed some light on the viability of both.

one thing i should note is that, libs spec doesnt stress level requirement much, getting 100 with mana is almost essential to have the numbers i have. with libs spec you can pull it off at 90+ honestly, it might not be optimal but it definitely gets the job done. mana has pathing that doesnt hit the sweet spot until maybe late 90s because of node priorities.




all the screenshots are unbuffed aside from charges ofcourse.
screenshots (sorry about size)



sadly im not posting my tree, call me selfish and whatnot but i did essentially all the endgame min maxing tree wise and spent a solid amount of time testing pathing so id prefer to keep the tree to myself.

but honestly it doesnt take much work or knowledge to really figure it out for yourself most of it is general common sense.

id consider giving my tree to individuals who pm me but still on the edge about sharing ;d


bottom line...NOTHING can beat my 666 crit multiplier. get on my devil boiz.

"

qquno wrote:

"

tokimeki2003 wrote:

"

qquno wrote:

I am trying to find someone with similarly perfect gear yet mana version, so I could compare it, but could not find anyone :E

Sorry, But I don't think Mana version is Actually viable right now~

Well, mana version spending less skill points on pathing to BM/extra auras nodes/hp regen, so you can spend it on DPS nodes or ES, but ofc you have less auras (solo), so its somewhat even out. In the party mana version on the other hand leech hatred/haste etc from party members, so you gonna have more DPS than BM guys.

But its all assumptions, and I rather want to see numbers. My current LL ST ranger have like 60-65k GMP (need to check it, since I use LMP most of the time), it have too much ES nodes since I am leveling and do not care about DPS that much, so at lvl 100 I can drop ES and get more DPS, not to mention what one of the rings does not have WED or any other DPS mods, belt have like 22% WED and amulet does not have spell damage :) So I pretty sure I can get ~70-80k GMP with better gear solo, and that similar to DPS you have, and in the party it most likely gonna exceed yours.

I hope you understand what I am not trying to bragging or something, just curious.

Ha, I knew that would Cause some community backlash somewhere~

Lols, What I think is viable, or not Does not, or Should not concern others.

However Due to tradition's I'd like to level all my toons to lvl 90, I had the pleasure of Doing some 78 Rota's With the STD lvling 78 rota gang, I saw quite a few lvl 95-99 levels doing mana ST, One guy in particular at lvl 99, Died 4 times, In one rotation, Poor Fella Lost 40% Exp at lvl 99, It kinda broke my heart~ I haven't seen his tree, But He got insta one shotted on reflect packs, and heavily Lacked self sustained aura's of his own.

"

nickyadaya wrote:

I'm not at all sure why you would say Mana version isn't viable.


Mana version is 100% viable and my preferred version as I've tried both.

If i were to mirror another ring and maybe get a carrion braid or an ammy of the likes, my gmp would be 90k+ ish and single would be 200k without a doubt.

both versions bm mc, and mana are viable. one is not necessarily better than the other by any means. in my honest opinion if i did have to chose one it would be the mana version in terms of qol, and safety. If i were to get a gloom call or onslaught song + the additional 45-47 es on a belt + second ring i could push my es up to around 8.5kish.

my es is higher, and dps is higher even without fully mirrored gear, yet i dont have the luxury of haste which is a con, but when playing in a full party almost 99.9% of the time someone will have haste pushing these numbers above and beyond, where as bm mc is more so the buffer as opposed to the buffee.

uber with my gear and spec is as smooth as it can be, no problems ever. done nearly 100+ after 1.3.

I'm curious to hear as to why you don't think mana is "viable" i think that's an awful strong word for something that is in this case above par compared to your spec. I'm not trying to say that I am better, or my build is better by any means, please don't take it that way because both specs are absolutely fantastic, its just that's quite a bit of misinformation for people that are trying to chose which version they would like to run so hopefully this gives a clearer understanding as to the similarities and differences between the two aswell as shed some light on the viability of both.

one thing i should note is that, libs spec doesnt stress level requirement much, getting 100 with mana is almost essential to have the numbers i have. with libs spec you can pull it off at 90+ honestly, it might not be optimal but it definitely gets the job done. mana has pathing that doesnt hit the sweet spot until maybe late 90s because of node priorities.

all the screenshots are unbuffed aside from charges ofcourse.
screenshots (sorry about size)

Spoiler

sadly im not posting my tree, call me selfish and whatnot but i did essentially all the endgame min maxing tree wise and spent a solid amount of time testing pathing so id prefer to keep the tree to myself.

but honestly it doesnt take much work or knowledge to really figure it out for yourself most of it is general common sense.

id consider giving my tree to individuals who pm me but still on the edge about sharing ;d


bottom line...NOTHING can beat my 666 crit multiplier. get on my devil boiz.

You know what Gives more dps's / more ES?

Duo with a Full Support Character all the aura, and you take no Aura nodes, and Spec Fully into Melee/ Dagger Es nodes.

Tehehe, My point being, If you Were to rely party members Every time you wanna level, There are too many probability's, Aura bot in your vicinity / Actual online time, etc.

If you were to actually Calculate the buff's of other players Likely to be IN your Party is completely different from what a Build should stand for, Its a slippery slope. For example, Lets say I also Include the buff's from shrines?

I can easily boost up my DPS for ICD instead of ICC, But that Damage isn't Really required, I prefer the more balance approach of crit cap, quality of life and being 100% self sufficient, Lets say you were a tool tip Dps monger, you don't need the Sustainability of recasting your ST more than once, So, No need of life regen, No need for life on kill, Thats' 9 points extra..? Pretty sure I can pump those points into more Dps where its not required :)

Let's hope I answered your questions.

Your gem setup is a bit old schooled tho, But I've promised myself to be nice to everyone this week! As log as you are happy I guess :)

Many Thanks
Libby~

Edit;

I can kinda Figure out what Your tree looks like, It's Either the Heart Seeker Multi Cluster / Scion Starter Multi cluster, but hey ho~ Dam witches, and there high Spell power starter nodes~

This Build ONLY Really works on a Scion, If you tried BM on your lvl 100 witch, You'll have Massive problems.

Raya's New Shield is pretty good this patch~ Shame its 44 fire Res And it doesn't Match with my rings~

I think you missed pretty much every point I made and took my post fairly personal.

I delibrately compared the two specs in an unbiased manner and your acting fairly biased given you've only played your spec after 1.3.

I don't care who you played with in 78 rots if they are dying to reflect they are Incredibly bad lmfao and clearly are doing a lot of things wrong.

I'm not sure why your acting as if I said a single bad thing about your build or am trying to discredit you in any way. I've been nothing but respectful and courteous. The only reason I posted this was because of the gentleman above you requesting a viable mana spec.


To respond to some of your key points I tested bm on my scion AND witch at a later point just for pure testing purposes and like I said before there essentially is hardly any difference.

I'm a little confused as to what you consider "self sustained auras". I run every single aura you do except haste. If you consider that an aura that is required to sustain anything I don't really know what to say.

I soloed for probably about half of my road to 100 and heavily through 97-98 ish. I died three times (one in an apex due to high ping spike + puncture) from 90-100 and there are quite a vast amount of people that can vouch for that if you seriously care enough to have me validate that my build doesn't need to ride on the dicks of party members. I really don't see how it's arguable to say one spec is better than the other. It's be just plain silly.

There's no "qol" difference between our specs

We have essentially the exact same damage output

We have a fairly moderate es difference in which mana comes out on top with a max es of approximately 8.5-8.6k with perfect gear, but doesn't necessarily make a world of a difference while leveling anyways if playing smart.

Mana has a bit higher physical damage than bm mc does therefore more effective leech but nothing super substantial.

Bm mc gets haste and q bm gem on enhance resulting in slightly higher aps and mana does not.

Probs a few other things but the notable points are stated and clearly the pros and cons even out down to PERSONAL preference. Statistic wise one really isn't better than the other undeniably.


The approach I'm taking I think you can agree is unbiased I think it's pretty silly that I have to restate that fact considering I've held that stance since my first post. You don't have to take this really personal, I just don't think it's fair to call something "not viable" without getting the entire facts properly about it. It doesn't matter who you've played with that was mana based, to use something like that in your defense is absurd considering I can say the same exact thing, I've been in parties with bm mc llst players who actually specifically follow your spec and are absolute garbage can players, it doesn't mean the build is bad? It means the player is bad. If you have acuities you shouldn't be dying to reflect unless you get cursed I think you out of all people should know that alone is a red flag that, that players gear/spec is shit. Pretty common knowledge shit.


I don't mean to offend you in any way as I've said, not an I trying to instigate an argument I just believe you should really take the time and read over some of the things I've said in my past post and maybe even this one before replying in an intellectual manner because I feel like you truly didn't take the time to understand what I was saying. It seems to be a common thing as I look back at some of the constructive comments in prior pages of your guide.

Anyways I'm done with my wall of text, hopefully this shines a bit more light on both the viability of the specs and can be an end all of dispute here because that's absolutely not what I came here for. Just to educate nothing more.


Note: my gem setup is not "old school" it's the optimal choice for a mana spec consider there is nothing better I can slot. If your particularly talking about crit chance gem over crit damage there's no reason to use it considering I'm capped with the tree and power charges without excess and unreasonable nodes so I have to say that's a fairly invalid point.