What's Being Kept from Ambush/Invasion? (Updated July 4)

Im shocked that invasion bosses wont be integrated into the core game, even at small spawn rate.

Hopefully invaders are made part of a map mod. A copy of the exile map mod which makes two invading bosses spawn randomly in the map.

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nheowitzki wrote:

Im shocked that invasion bosses wont be integrated into the core game, even at small spawn rate.

I'm shocked that you're shocked. I'm an invasion player, and level 91 at that so I definitely enjoy the league. I do think it was implemented very, very poorly in the beginning, but I was lucky enough to roll a build that could handle most invaders. However, the feedback for Invasion has been overwhelmingly negative. There's no denying that GGG's philosophy of "HC leagues are about killing the players" was way out of line with what most people playing on hardcore leagues want. Invasion, sadly, has nowhere near the population that Nemesis did at the same point in the league.

GGG's decision not to move Invaders to the base game is really heartening to me, actually. It shows that they listened to the overwhelmingly negative feedback concerning invaders. I really, really hope that they revisit their design philosophy for future hardcore leagues. Up to now, it's been "extra difficulty, very little reward" while the softcore leagues get "very little difficulty, much more reward." They have said that they feel hardcore leagues should be punishing and truly difficult.

However, I personally feel they overlooked the fact that HC players get attached to their characters too. We don't like dying! We like the risk of death and how it alters how you approach the game, not death itself. While there was very little risk for most HC players before invasion, people did still die nonetheless, and I don't think it's a bad thing if not many people are dying. You still have to play much more cautiously and enough people die that it makes the economy a lot better.

Basically, I feel the attitude of the devs toward HC completely conflicts with the wishes of the HC playerbase (for the most part). According to the devs, the point of HC leagues is to kill players, and yet for the players, the point of HC leagues is to not die. See the problem?

oOh the boxes should be a fix part to the normal standard--- not at often then in ambush, but sometimes this would be very cool.. if you really include this this will bee soo cool

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Chris wrote:

Ambush League
The ambush chests are great fun and will be integrated into the core game. Their spawn rate will probably be reduced slightly, and we'll have to rebalance how Cartographers ones work in end-game Maps (currently they're incredibly effective at dropping higher maps - this is an experiment we're currently willing to let run its course).

One of the currently most beloved aspects of Ambush is the Cartographer's chest. People enjoy having sustainable maps at high levels. This is what motivates people to stick around and play more endgame content.

In standard, endgame players constantly hit a brick wall of RNG when trying to sustain high-level maps and it's beyond frustrating. Frustrating != challenging. Instead of motivating people to play more, unsustainable high-level maps are making people lose interest in their characters, because they're always being forced to grind low-level maps that are already mind-numbingly easy.

Your introduction of Cartographer's chest in Ambush obviously solved this frustration. Why would you want to rebalance (nerf) their spawn rates when so many people enjoy that mechanic?

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rrtson wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Ambush League
The ambush chests are great fun and will be integrated into the core game. Their spawn rate will probably be reduced slightly, and we'll have to rebalance how Cartographers ones work in end-game Maps (currently they're incredibly effective at dropping higher maps - this is an experiment we're currently willing to let run its course).

One of the currently most beloved aspects of Ambush is the Cartographer's chest. People enjoy having sustainable maps at high levels. This is what motivates people to stick around and play more endgame content.

In standard, endgame players constantly hit a brick wall of RNG when trying to sustain high-level maps and it's beyond frustrating. Frustrating != challenging. Instead of motivating people to play more, unsustainable high-level maps are making people lose interest in their characters, because they're always being forced to grind low-level maps that are already mind-numbingly easy.

Your introduction of Cartographer's chest in Ambush obviously solved this frustration. Why would you want to rebalance (nerf) their spawn rates when so many people enjoy that mechanic?

There's no way that the current state of Cartographer's boxes are healthy long term. I play on Invasion, we don't have any Cartographer's boxes, and I can sustain 77-78 maps just fine. The issues with sustaining high-end maps are blown completely out of proportion. Sure, everyone will have streaks of bad luck but unless you're doing blue 77-78 maps or not chaosing good rolls, you'll have no problem sustaining high maps.

I mean, do you have any idea how much they've buffed the drop rates for maps since release? IMO, even without cartographer's boxes, it's a little *too* easy to sustain 77-78 maps. Maps are meant to be a currency sink. When maps are too plentiful, you get inflation which is bad for the game. In any case, there is *never* any need to farm lower maps if you don't wish to. People sell maps, and a big part of ARPG's is trading.

If you get a bad streak of RNG, instead of wasting your time doing lower maps, drop a few ex on some 77's and go to town. You cannot hit a brick wall mapping unless you build it yourself.

The whole 'guest monster' thing takes away from each area's uniqueness turning it into somewhat of a random mess with nothing to differentiate one area of the game from the next. The whole system should be removed imo.

Two things I would like to see here:

The Ambish boxes are nice, but I would get rid of the special ones. Just make the boxes apear as Strongbox or such, have it have it's enchantments on it, and then drop whatever random loot you can think of. The specialty-boxes make the system hard to balance. Maybe have a small chance of droping maps in any box, same with gems and currency, and the rest is items. Have them drop a quarantied rare item. That would seem balanced to me.

I would like to see Invasion bosses in the core game. BUT:
In a like 1:10 ratio, like every 10 zones you spawn. And then, most important to me: I would like to have invaded zones to have an indicator! Some weather effect, some trails ont he ground, whatever. But that players can see: Oh, invaded zone. So that we can be carefull, but it adds excitement: Where's the boss, who is it, can I hunt it down etc. I would LOVE that!

Cart boxes only help players play the content their characters are capable of playing. To nerf them would be silly. In fact they seem really rare as it is.
The ol' make them play low level content for no reason is terrible game design.

I never get cartobox except when farming corrupted zones :(

Gemcutter boxes will be extremely appreciated in new leagues. My biggest peeve about playing in invasion after rolling in ambush is how difficult it is to build a gem stash at lower levels.