Client-server Action Synchronisation

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ignarsoll wrote:

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UnholyMaster wrote:

I think any ranged attack/cast should be stand-still attack/cast. Yes, SHIFT is the answer, but not all of us use it.

Thanks for pointing this, I totally forgot to mention it.

Desync forces me to always press shift while attacking and it became my playstyle I would highly appreciate a toggle that enables stand still ranged attacks giving my little finger a relief.

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kasub wrote:

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by simply sending full state (/oos) much more frequently.

Beyond cost that is a horrible horrible solution. That would make the game incredibly clunk and unfun to play. The current situation is bad but that's way worse.

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kasub wrote:

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There are absolutely problems with various skills (Whirling Blades, Cyclone, Brutus' Hook, etc) that make them more desync-prone than others. These are being aggressively investigated and we should have good progress to share on that front soon.

I'm surprised this part is mentioned. I might be wrong but I thought it was obvious what made these so desyncy.

Cyclone: You don't desync due to enemy collision since you go through enemies. However you constantly bump into terrain, small objects or get stuck on a wall. This causes desync very easily. It being a movement skill means you'll often desync at doorways or trying to maneuver around a small object.

Correct me if I'm wrong about these. I'm just basing them on my experience with all these skills. To me cyclone is the worst offender since getting stuck against a small obstacle is so easy.

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sidtherat wrote:

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Jihoko wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

You went for cost saving model and it is clearly visible.

What are you talking about? Did you even read the post? They cannot simply solve desync by throwing money at it, that's now how it works. Desync has nothing to do with the quality/quantity of their servers.

i have 10+ years of SW architect experience and i quite well understand what is going on here. most of what youve just read in this manifesto are elusive excuses

the mere existence of /oos should tell you that the CAN fix (alleviate) it, by simply sending full state (/oos) much more frequently. but this COSTS MONEY! so they do not. tehre is a reason why /oos is limited to once per ~10 seconds. to not overload servers and not eat up bandwidth. both cost money and a lot of it.

this ofc does not solve false premise that thin-client implementation cannot give fluid experience (world of tanks - again - would like to say HI!). i also havent ever heard 'd3 is clunky'. d3 is very fluid even when playing on america servers from europe (160ms ping minimum for me). it feels different, but it is 100% responsive and 'rubberbanding' happens once a day or less.

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Chris wrote:

Some players frequently call things things "desync" that aren't related to action sync. For example, if there's a lag-spike on the general internet, or if the client has to load an art asset in a hurry (which causes a frame-rate stall), then this is often described as "desync" by some players. Those other problems are issues that require separate solutions. It's relatively frustrating to see someone say "the desync is really bad today" when they mean "Some ISP between me and the server is lagging badly today".

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Chris wrote:

To elaborate on the last point and clarify the problem in a nutshell:

There is no way around this, due to the speed of light.

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rrtson wrote:

You're insinuating that players are too dumb to distinguish between desync and lag?

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Yeah, this is just plain insulting. You're insinuating that players are too dumb to distinguish between desync and lag? An example of lag is when you click somewhere/something, and there's a visible delay on the client before said action is executed. On the other hand, desync is when everything on screen seems to be functioning normally, but the game suddenly teleports you (or monsters) to completely different positions after a resync with the server.

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t_golgari wrote:

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ignarsoll wrote:

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UnholyMaster wrote:

I think any ranged attack/cast should be stand-still attack/cast. Yes, SHIFT is the answer, but not all of us use it.

Thanks for pointing this, I totally forgot to mention it.

Desync forces me to always press shift while attacking and it became my playstyle I would highly appreciate a toggle that enables stand still ranged attacks giving my little finger a relief.

A little friendly advice: Don't use the left mouse button for your attack. If you use ANY other button, your char will not run to the target or run to any place if you missed the mob, because all other keys have an auto-shift to the attack, so you will always shoot/hit the place you clicked on.

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rrtson wrote:

Yeah, someone who just started this game and is experiencing desync is totally going to read through all of this text explaining why their character is jumping back and forth on-screen multiple times a minute. The fact that you need an entire essay to explain why your game isn't in working order speaks volumes on the technical limitations of your design/implementation. I would've thought that between now and the last time your manifesto was written, GGG would've at least made some progress on desync, but yet again, more lip-service.

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Chris wrote:

Some players frequently call things things "desync" that aren't related to action sync. For example, if there's a lag-spike on the general internet, or if the client has to load an art asset in a hurry (which causes a frame-rate stall), then this is often described as "desync" by some players. Those other problems are issues that require separate solutions. It's relatively frustrating to see someone say "the desync is really bad today" when they mean "Some ISP between me and the server is lagging badly today".

Yeah, this is just plain insulting. You're insinuating that players are too dumb to distinguish between desync and lag? An example of lag is when you click somewhere/something, and there's a visible delay on the client before said action is executed. On the other hand, desync is when everything on screen seems to be functioning normally, but the game suddenly teleports you (or monsters) to completely different positions after a resync with the server.

You claim that "it's relatively frustrating to see someone say 'the desync is really bad today'"? Well Chris, it's even more frustrating to die of desync and have the lead developer shrug off responsibility because hur dur that wasnt desync, that was lag. The hundreds of PoE-desync-death videos on YouTube would like to have a word with you, many of which are of top players/streamers.