Ambush Atziri competition has concluded. Invasion is still going!

For a challenge, skill should be involved, skill can not be involved when the bosses characteristics are not revealed, simple as that.

The biggest part of what is considered skill in PoE is the ability to counter build and blend both passive tree with active skill gems to counter a fight.

This challenge was biased, simple as that.

Builds A/B/C could compete, while builds D and E got shafted. This fact is not even a problem in itself, the problem is that people could not make an informed decision to go for build A/B/C.

It's like a spin-the-bottle challenge where only the players getting pointed at by the bottle can go and play.

I have around 31 builds lined up i would still like to play in PoE, a stun marauder was one of them. Based on info prior to the patch, not one boss had unwavering or status ailments immunity. So basically they created a challenge around an exception of the perceived rule.

Nothing would have prevented me from making another one of those 31 builds if i had known she had unwavering, i could still have made my stun marauder after the challenge ended. Having both a shot at the challenge and a stun char by the end of the 4 months.

This was just piss poor implementation and an oversight of GGG, an oversight i hope will not become the standard for next challenges. Because if this will be the case, serious competitors will bail on the challenges. When the winner is dictated by sheer luck, very little challenge is involved.

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Boem wrote:

For a challenge, skill should be involved, skill can not be involved when the bosses characteristics are not revealed, simple as that.

The biggest part of what is considered skill in PoE is the ability to counter build and blend both passive tree with active skill gems to counter a fight.

This challenge was biased, simple as that.

Builds A/B/C could compete, while builds D and E got shafted. This fact is not even a problem in itself, the problem is that people could not make an informed decision to go for build A/B/C.

It's like a spin-the-bottle challenge where only the players getting pointed at by the bottle can go and play.

I have around 31 builds lined up i would still like to play in PoE, a stun marauder was one of them. Based on info prior to the patch, not one boss had unwavering or status ailments immunity. So basically they created a challenge around an exception of the perceived rule.

Nothing would have prevented me from making another one of those 31 builds if i had known she had unwavering, i could still have made my stun marauder after the challenge ended. Having both a shot at the challenge and a stun char by the end of the 4 months.

This was just piss poor implementation and an oversight of GGG, an oversight i hope will not become the standard for next challenges. Because if this will be the case, serious competitors will bail on the challenges. When the winner is dictated by sheer luck, very little challenge is involved.

I both agree and disagree with this post.

I finished Atziri in the #10 spot on Ambush, when I did it, little was known about the Atziri dungeon aside from the final fight, and I failed it twice with my partner to fully learn how to do the second fight (the double vaal should be easy for everyone).

Certain builds are better there, for sure. As a summoner I felt like that I was put in just as much of a disadvantage as your example of a stun mara, in that in both second fight and the atziri fight, it is really impossible to keep the zombies (75+% of my dps) alive for more than 30 seconds due to all the aoe being thrown around. That part I agree.

However, I also understand that there are literally thousands of builds currently in existence (the sheer combination of skill gems vs the choices of CI/Low Life/EB MoM/Life puts that number in the hundreds) and that it is really quite an impossible task to make a boss that is balanced vs all the builds. Some of atziri's immunities are just straight up (unwavering, immunity to burning) and locks a lot of builds out straight out and greatly diminishes the dps of a lot of other oens, and that could be made better, but the problem of unfairness to builds will always exist no matter how hard GGG tries. In that case, we as players must adapt. In normal content, I am a summoner that solos all maps and all mods (did fracturing no regen courtyard for the first time yesterday, fking vaal orbs), but in Atziri, I played a support role because frankly I couldn't be much use as a dps. With doedres ring and windscream, every build can be a double/triple curser and most builds can run at least 1 aura. If you can't get on stage and be the star, support your friend and make him the star.

@doombearded, just like many others responding to my view of this challenge, you are misunderstanding my issue.

I don't think atziri having stun immunity and status ailments immunity to be a problem. In fact, builds utilizing these mechanics can still kill here given enough,

A) time

B) gear

However, for a time based challenge, these are in fact the two active things you want to bypass in order to compete.

Like i mentioned earlier, i have many builds lined up that i have yet to play in PoE, and given the knowledge about the boss know, i could choose a build more suited for the task.

If this information was released pre-release then people could have made an informed decision about what build to utilize for this challenge to increase there chances of winning.
Instead people got a big "Nope.jpg" at day four, when the first atziri kill was done in standard.

(THAT'S FOUR DAYS IN THE CHALLENGE, for my character this meant being lvl 75 and having used roughly 6 exalteds to gear him up for atziri, being UNAWARE of the fact my char had a disadvantage for the challenge)

That's not a challenge based on competition, that's a spin the bottle contest.

From a different point of view, one of my mates made a Explosive Arrow marauder to go for Atziri, imagine his disappointment on day four when he read the words "immune to ignite",
this disappointment is only exaggerated by the fact we had nothing to do with this decision.

It was not our fault we chose to utilize these builds (not one boss prior to atziri had these characteristics) yet we got a big nono from GGG to compete for the challenge.

If this info was released, AND THEN somebody decided to make a stunrauder/explosive arrow character. THAT is a skill based decision that will result in a handicap for the challenge.

See the difference of having this info pre-challenge instead of hidden for the public?

Releasing this information would not have made the boss fight any easier. Knowing she is stun immune does not reveal her attack pattern, her attack moves Etc...

It would just mean, if you have sufficient knowledge of the game(= skill?) that you would probably not dedicate 40% of your passive tree in stun oriented nodes.

And to anybody saying :

"respec out of stun", sorry to brake it to you, but for another build another starting position is required. Atm marauder is not really optimal for anything BUT stun and RF characters. Asside from that not even being my issue.(i could have made that char after the challenge was over...)

Edit : various typo's have been corrected.

I understand your post, and I do agree with you. Her immunities are kind of random and had they been different, other builds would have been sorta useless against her.

Imagine if she had a proximity shield, suddenly Mathils would not have been the #1 Ambush person to kill her. Imagine if instead of being immune to ignite, she is immune to burning damage altogether, then RFs cant kill her (those two are the top builds for her imo in the current game).

And I do understand your pain, when I first saw the standard atziri kill video and saw flameblasts that filled 75% of the room, I knew that I'd be at a disadvantage as a summoner. But imagine instead she did have the proximity shield and the burning immunity I mentioned above but a bit smaller AOEs, then I as a summoner would've been ok in dealing with her, but as I mentioned buzzsaw and RF would then be screwed. It sucks, GGG rolled the dice and it screwed us, what can we do?

Though I strongly disagree with the "announce a boss beforehand" thing, the Atziri fight along with the 3-bosses fight were two of the most adrenaline-packed fights I've ever done in PoE, and one factor contributing to that is me not knowing what to expect and, even after failing it twice, not having the perfect strategy for it and still having to rely on reflexes. And tbh, how boring would it be if it was announced, say, a month ahead of time and everyone just theorycrafts the most perfect build for her and everyone will just kill her using that one build. It'd be like watching Path of Searing Bond on Twitch all over again! Plus, there is pride is being one of the first of a certain build to beat her (I think I was #1 summoner to do it, but not sure)

There are things that I'd really have loved for GGG to improve, such as tone down the immunity clause such as to not outright screw half of the builds, and giving some summoners love :P, and add countermeasures so people can't just buy their way into top 50 (maybe add a 1 week timer before atziri can be done again, until top 50 is complete? or just monitor it more strictly?) as I know of at least 1 group of players who were selling atziri kills before top 50 completed. But honestly, I'm pretty against the whole "tell us beforehand" thing, there is fun in not knowing, I want to keep it that way.

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But honestly, I'm pretty against the whole "tell us beforehand" thing, there is fun in not knowing, I want to keep it that way.

Not in a challenge that rewards a one-time only mtx. Not in a challenge all together.

And releasing she had immunity's to certain core game mechanics would have done nothing to render the excitement mute. Her fighting tactics are not revealed, neither here ability's used to destroy you.

People seem to think that by releasing the information

"queen atziri is stun and status ailment immune" the fight is a freewin and cheesefest.

It is not. It is just common sense to announce core Path of Exile game mechanics are being rendered useless in this boss fight when creating a challenge around it.

You think the excitement lie's in reading her ability's once? Because that's all it is.
I read here immunity's once, and that was it, i knew what that information meant and how to handle it.

I think the excitement lie's in going in the boss room and not knowing what is coming. And then i don't mean "fuck my explosive arrow build only deals 2% potential damage against her".

What i am talking about is the 4-split phase and how to handle it, figuring that out. Forming a strategy against the double flameblast and mass storm calls. None of these parts that give excitement would be rendered mute by revealing here immunity's.

I am sorry i think you are confusing boss mechanics with boss characteristics.

Well.. If the dude didn't know she was immune to stun, freeze mine, etc., then that sucks.. But c'mon, think for a moment.. If you were planning on being one of the first 50 to kill atziri, then you pretty much had to have been playing for a decent amount of time, and you would know that POE tends to have trends of different game-breaking mechanics that players have taken advantage of in the past.. Most of these "advantages" have been either nerfed or tweaked in some way so that they are not as powerful as they once were.. Perma-stun back in closed beta, freeze mine in open beta, etc. Me, I wasn't planning on going for Atziri.. But if I was, I know damn well that I wouldn't have been able to perma-stun or freeze mine her being that GGG is giving away 100 FREE MTXs to the first 50 from each new league to kill her... All you needed was a little common sense, it wasn't going to be that easy..

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Well.. If the dude didn't know she was immune to stun, freeze mine, etc., then that sucks.. But c'mon, think for a moment.. If you were planning on being one of the first 50 to kill atziri, then you pretty much had to have been playing for a decent amount of time, and you would know that POE tends to have trends of different game-breaking mechanics that players have taken advantage of in the past.. Most of these "advantages" have been either nerfed or tweaked in some way so that they are not as powerful as they once were.. Perma-stun back in closed beta, freeze mine in open beta, etc. Me, I wasn't planning on going for Atziri.. But if I was, I know damn well that I wouldn't have been able to perma-stun or freeze mine her being that GGG is giving away 100 FREE MTXs to the first 50 from each new league to kill her... All you needed was a little common sense, it wasn't going to be that easy..

Obviously right... Given all the immune bosses in the game we should have smelled it from a mile away.

Sorry bro i forgot to sacrifice a sheep and look in my glass orb. MY BAD.

And my problem is not that she had these immunity's, it's the fact it was not announced.

Giving 10% of the community a big middle finger is not good for the future of the game.
(and yes i made that 10% up, but i am pretty sure 10% of the builds currently being played utilize one form of status ailment or stun)

You speak as if you had the knowledge you know have pre-patch, therefore i will ignore your further comments on this subject, since they are irrelevant.

THX ANYWAYZZZZZ BRUH.

@Boem i completely agree with you. If you were unlucky enough to make a build that didn't fit well with those specific unknown boss fights... well too bad, you lose

What I'd honestly like to see for the next implementation of such content is, no clues and anyone who speaks of the encounter in any way OR give away their current build when completing it should just get removed from the competition, let's face it, it didn't even take 48 hours after Mathil posted his build and gear after the first kill and boom, there goes another 30 something spots, ridiculous.... If you beat her, fine, but don't post ANY facts about it making sure that other players that have been playing since day one, who knows exactly how they should build, what gear to get and so on, get even more edge against any other player.

I wonder how many "winners" copied Mathil's build and grabbed a spot, just because they knew that it would work.

A competition like this should be secretive, right now it's more like Mathil just ran a marathon with 30+ people on his back making sure they get across the finish line before anyone else >_>

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Therobgoblin wrote:

What I'd honestly like to see for the next implementation of such content is, no clues and anyone who speaks of the encounter in any way OR give away their current build when completing it should just get removed from the competition, let's face it, it didn't even take 48 hours after Mathil posted his build and gear after the first kill and boom, there goes another 30 something spots, ridiculous.... If you beat her, fine, but don't post ANY facts about it making sure that other players that have been playing since day one, who knows exactly how they should build, what gear to get and so on, get even more edge against any other player.

I wonder how many "winners" copied Mathil's build and grabbed a spot, just because they knew that it would work.

A competition like this should be secretive, right now it's more like Mathil just ran a marathon with 30+ people on his back making sure they get across the finish line before anyone else >_>

You make it seem like Mathil's build was the one facerolling the entire Apex tanking all the damage. The fights are still difficult even with his build. I know because one of my guildies is Ele Spectral Throw and their builds are pretty similar. Both Mathil and my guildy died multiple times in the Apex when they downed Atziri. It is not a faceroll build. The advantages of the build are mobility and the budget.

Many builds actually killed Atziri. RF, Ele ST, Cyclone, and CoC are a few that I know of. The problem isn't copy paste... Its that fact that there were multiple groups selling fight after they had it down. One group told me that they had 3 guilds of 80+ people each farming fragments and currency in order to get 2 people super geared and to get them a lot of practice.

These players ruined the challenge. Even the 3 guilds are to blame. The competition was practically fixed from the very start and if you weren't fast enough to get it down you were SoL. Mathil, Maash, and my guildy Iceman were the some of the few that were able to do it legit solo. I also think there were 2 cycloners that showed solo vids on Ambush.

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The only thing that Mathil did was cause the price of Lightning Coil to go up. The armor didn't really make a big difference in the Atziri fight though considering most of the damage is fire. His build wasn't exactly designed for Atziri, it just happened to be pretty effective because it has some crazy mobility and aps.