Rares will always be BiS

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tinko92 wrote:

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Artanthos wrote:

It is BiS for some builds, not so much for others.

Trash for an evasion build and beyond worthless for my EB+AA summoner, for example.

Bones of Ullr and Aurumvorax are the Uniques I actually wear. All other slots are better filled with high end rares.

By your logic, there is no item that is BiS.

To be fair, there isn't. The word BiS is always related to a certain builds. And if you build a character around a certain unique it would be stupid if that unique wouldn't be best in slot.

If you don't design a character around certain uniques you are most likely not using them. There are a few like Marohi Erqi that are good for a long time, but are outclassed by certain rares. For such characters uniques are mostly situational. Saffels for a Spell-heavy fight or certain rings you equip for certain situations. Shields with Spellblock and Max-Resists are propably the one thing were there is a problem, because the most valuable mods are mainly exclusive for unique-shields. 8% Max-Resists on Rise of the Phoenix makes fire damage trivial for most builds, so they will propably aim for this shield or a Saffels in such situations.

The problem is that people might switch uniques between situation. Although a rare might be better in general you can often replace it with a unique in almost every situation. Saffels for Spells, Lioneyes if you are annoyed by projectiles etc. So rares would be BiS if you would be forced to take on everything with the same equip... but you aren't.

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Emphasy wrote:

To be fair, there isn't. The word BiS is always related to a certain builds. And if you build a character around a certain unique it would be stupid if that unique wouldn't be best in slot.

If you don't design a character around certain uniques you are most likely not using them. There are a few like Marohi Erqi that are good for a long time, but are outclassed by certain rares. For such characters uniques are mostly situational. Saffels for a Spell-heavy fight or certain rings you equip for certain situations. Shields with Spellblock and Max-Resists are propably the one thing were there is a problem, because the most valuable mods are mainly exclusive for unique-shields. 8% Max-Resists on Rise of the Phoenix makes fire damage trivial for most builds, so they will propably aim for this shield or a Saffels in such situations.

The problem is that people might switch uniques between situation. Although a rare might be better in general you can often replace it with a unique in almost every situation. Saffels for Spells, Lioneyes if you are annoyed by projectiles etc. So rares would be BiS if you would be forced to take on everything with the same equip... but you aren't.

Agreed.

But, if a unique item provides some sort of benefits that cannot possibly be outclassed by perfect rare items in every slot, something is wrong.

The very best example is the Aegis Aurora shield. Artanthos brought up evasion builds and summoners, but both of them aren't in the territory of mitigating damage.
Although evasion is almost as good as armour overall, but it fails at reliability and the life/ES pool, which are the most important things in the "defensive" category.

Aegis Aurora is incredibly better than any other shield regarding survivability, even if one possesses a literally perfect rare shield, it would be so much worse compared to Aegis that it's embarrassing and mind blowing.

By the way, regarding summoner build he mentioned, Aegis will provide far better survivability for himself, but not for the summons, even though it would make his overall survivability far worse.
The really only shield based characters that would have far less survivability are indeed evasion builds, for an obvious reason.

Aegis is the BiS for all non-evasion shield builds, which in the end, makes up for a quite of majority.

You've analyzed few uniques well, indicating that they have downsides, some are medium some are really big (Saffell's).

Sure, one can say that GGG fixed the Aegis recently, I'd argue that they didn't fix it at all, they even almost doubled the efficiency of the legacy one, while the new one remained around the same power as the legacy one with the previous tree.

And that's the reason I'll never play with shields again in this game (or at least when there will be no more this disgusting unbalance shit),

This has been going on plenty long. Lioneye's was basically bis for bow builds, Koam's for life builds, Aegis for shield builds, Auxium for es builds, and now Acuity for leech builds. Uniques are supposed to be BiS for their build, but a build is "Unarmed" or "Caster Marauder", not "Life" or "Ranged" and thus this happens.

The fact these gloves came out at the same time as the leech nerf just causes far more anger than the rest.

I'll just leave these here:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55152#unique
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55170
http://www.incgamers.com/2012/11/path-of-exile-item-creator-laz-discusses-his-work-his-diablo-median-xl-mod-and-diablo-3/
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/468945/ (Newsletter #1)

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SilentOppressor wrote:

This has been going on plenty long. Lioneye's was basically bis for bow builds, Koam's for life builds, Aegis for shield builds, Auxium for es builds, and now Acuity for leech builds.

You can compare all that with their rare competitors.

In the mirrored/mirrorable section, in the amount of high priced rare items for their slot, etc.
And you'll come to a conclusion that shields are, definitely, the most fucked up category in the whole game.
When a 10 ex shield is the ultimate shield regarding defensive ability.

Spell + crit shields are more expensive than Aegis, but they're can't be compared in the defensive role, very very far from it...

Even Crest of Perandus is better than most of rare shields, and that item is worth 1 Alchemy orb.

This is not a rocket science.

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tikitaki wrote:

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RDreams wrote:

To everyone complaining about how GGG forgotten their words etc:
you obviously were not playing in closed beta, when maximum ILVL of items was 62, max life mods on rares were about 80, when there was no resistance penalties on cruel and merciless, and kaoms plate with 1000 hp was so BiS you can't even imagine.
Only thing that kept whiners at bay at that time was easier content, when anyone could clear MoC with garbage gear. And also everyone was busy complaining about ES, because CI had "+100% more ES" and ES characters had 4-5 times more ES that even very tanky HP builds had hp.

So because of one particular item, all slots should have BiS unique variants?

Please, just go back to World of Warcraft, that is where players with your mentality belong.

Please, just stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that i liked this. But BiS unique were in PoE since the start. And they will be.

P.S. Never played WoW, not a single day.

Firt Atziri kill in Invasion = dude wearing BoR, Soul Taker, Saffell's Frame.

Because why build around one unique item when you can build around three?

Unique items: not overpowered, and not generally better than rares.

Oh wait.

Path of Brown Items.

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tinko92 wrote:

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Artanthos wrote:

It is BiS for some builds, not so much for others.

Trash for an evasion build and beyond worthless for my EB+AA summoner, for example.

Bones of Ullr and Aurumvorax are the Uniques I actually wear. All other slots are better filled with high end rares.

By your logic, there is no item that is BiS.

There is no single item that is BiS for all builds.

Such an item would be incredibly broken.

It would be hard to expect a rare set to beat a unique set this early in the season. Especially considering you can base your build around unique's this early in the league, while basing it around rare's might bite you in the ass. Just saying...

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tikitaki wrote:

Firt Atziri kill in Invasion = dude wearing BoR, Soul Taker, Saffell's Frame.

Because why build around one unique item when you can build around three?

Unique items: not overpowered, and not generally better than rares.

Oh wait.

Path of Brown Items.

We're two weeks into the league. Please use some common sense.