Race Season 6 Impressions

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SlixSC wrote:

Literally the only reason you always see the same people at the top is because virtually only 2 competent racers per class are actually doing that race (sometimes even none). It's not like signature races where occasionally you have several good players per class participating.

Just look at the last Descent: Champions in season 6 http://poestatistics.com/events/1-hr-descent-champions-s06f174/

There are maybe 3-4 racers on that list that I heard of before and even the top 10 overall results are god awful, the competition in Descent: Champions is generally pretty low because I would argue that most competent racers simply don't give a fuck about that race.

And why would I suggest how to balance that race? GGG just removed the old descent, so I would argue that they should do exactly the same with Descent: Champions. No double standards here.

Time of race has a lot to do with who participates. Also, with the way races are setup with a season, there should be some races like D:C. They get far more players than a sig race. Catering the entire season to 20-50 people would be a poor way to encourage participation. There should be all sorts of races.

Besides, look at fracturing. Roll LGoH on hit early on, you win. I could play D:C all day, at least for a while, because if nothing else you get to craft, and unless you enjoy spending hours each day trading, or get very lucky with drops, you never get to do that in the main game.

I think that having more people at the top of the races that you dont know is a sign of it being more competitive. You see a lot of scions in that lists which is because of class dynamics, not due to competition. Scion has the best of all worlds, in terms of gem choices & skill tree, making them able to kill the final boss & appear higher on the ladder.

The only thing I think that would increase the results is if more people played, which would only result in more people you dont recognise on the rankings. In terms of what you are saying about awful levels, I understand that to acheive 26+ you need to full clear halls + the boss, which would probably be resolved by making the race a little longer, giving better races more options on what to do with their time. Personally I think this season & D:C was a success, since it increased player participation in races which I ultimately think is the only way to increase competitiveness. I dont mind if they dont use D:C next season, but I dont think it was any less competitive than a normal race.

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reboticon wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

Literally the only reason you always see the same people at the top is because virtually only 2 competent racers per class are actually doing that race (sometimes even none). It's not like signature races where occasionally you have several good players per class participating.

Just look at the last Descent: Champions in season 6 http://poestatistics.com/events/1-hr-descent-champions-s06f174/

There are maybe 3-4 racers on that list that I heard of before and even the top 10 overall results are god awful, the competition in Descent: Champions is generally pretty low because I would argue that most competent racers simply don't give a fuck about that race.

And why would I suggest how to balance that race? GGG just removed the old descent, so I would argue that they should do exactly the same with Descent: Champions. No double standards here.

Time of race has a lot to do with who participates. Also, with the way races are setup with a season, there should be some races like D:C. They get far more players than a sig race. Catering the entire season to 20-50 people would be a poor way to encourage participation. There should be all sorts of races.

Besides, look at fracturing. Roll LGoH on hit early on, you win. I could play D:C all day, at least for a while, because if nothing else you get to craft, and unless you enjoy spending hours each day trading, or get very lucky with drops, you never get to do that in the main game.

Which brings us right back to my original point. You don't want racing to be as competitive as possible, you just want alot of orbs to craft and shiny things.

This is what I said in my first post and your post just proves my point. People don't like D:C champions because of it's competitive merits, they like it because they get alot of currency and free stuff (including easy points).

This is what I don't understand. If you just want to craft items, why doesn't GGG just organize void-league events that give players infinite currency to craft items on void league characters they then can use for a few hours?

This is why boof is right, this game won't ever be truly competitive, because it doesn't attract players with competitive mindsets, it mainly attracts people who love to hoard loot.

It's a lost cause.

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Metronomy wrote:

I think that having more people at the top of the races that you dont know is a sign of it being more competitive. You see a lot of scions in that lists which is because of class dynamics, not due to competition. Scion has the best of all worlds, in terms of gem choices & skill tree, making them able to kill the final boss & appear higher on the ladder.

Complete and utter nonsense. The more people at the top of ladders the less skillful the game and the more random it is.

This is why Broodwar, to this day, is the most competitive game ever played, because it was dominated by players such as Flash, JD, Stork, Bisu, etc.. players with exceptional skill, who were able to seperate themselves from the masses. SC2 on the other hand has a significantly lower skill cap, more randomness and subsequently alot more people who are able to win tournaments.

You got it completely backwards.

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SlixSC wrote:

Complete and utter nonsense. The more people at the top of ladders the less skillful the game and the more random it is.

This is why Broodwar, to this day, is the most competitive game ever played, because it was dominated by players such as Flash, JD, Stork, Bisu, etc.. players with exceptional skill, who were able to seperate themselves from the masses. SC2 on the other hand has a significantly lower skill cap, more randomness and subsequently alot more people who are able to win tournaments.

You got it completely backwards.

Well if that is the case then PoE is already very competitive, its just that those good people didnt play in that race. That is why we have those threads about people not even wanting to try because they see the same people at the top every race.

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SlixSC wrote:

Which brings us right back to my original point. You don't want racing to be as competitive as possible, you just want alot of orbs to craft and shiny things.

Racing is already not that competitive because everyone is in the same bracket. There are 20-50 guys who dominate everyone else. For the rest of the people to bother participating (and thus hopefully improve, bringing more competition) there has to be a reason.

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SlixSC wrote:

This is what I said in my first post and your post just proves my point. People don't like D:C champions because of it's competitive merits, they like it because they get alot of currency and free stuff (including easy points).

You aren't wrong about that, but you also referred to it as the worst type of race ever (which I would disagree with because it still uses less RNG than in EL or Fracture.)

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SlixSC wrote:

This is what I don't understand. If you just want to craft items, why doesn't GGG just organize void-league events that give players infinite currency to craft items on void league characters they then can use for a few hours?

I'm not opposed to that at all, but you should think of D:C more as "practice" races. It does teach a lot about proper item management and gearing on the fly.

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SlixSC wrote:

This is why boof is right, this game won't ever be truly competitive, because it doesn't attract players with competitive mindsets, it mainly attracts people who love to hoard loot.

It's a lost cause.

This game won't ever be truly competitive because everything revolves around RNG and it's an ARPG. You top guys are always saying that all it takes to be competitive is to watch a few streams and run a few practice races. If that is true, then it's just not that competitive in general. What other game can you think of where someone could truly be "competitive" after watching a few streams and some practice runs? Do you think Quake, Starcraft, Any Fighting Game fall into that?

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Metronomy wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

Complete and utter nonsense. The more people at the top of ladders the less skillful the game and the more random it is.

This is why Broodwar, to this day, is the most competitive game ever played, because it was dominated by players such as Flash, JD, Stork, Bisu, etc.. players with exceptional skill, who were able to seperate themselves from the masses. SC2 on the other hand has a significantly lower skill cap, more randomness and subsequently alot more people who are able to win tournaments.

You got it completely backwards.

Well if that is the case then PoE is already very competitive, its just that those good people didnt play in that race. That is why we have those threads about people not even wanting to try because they see the same people at the top every race.

Well that's just a problem with their mindset is it not? If we want racing to be competitive it also follows that the best players should win, so there should be enough incentive to improve, if people don't want to put in enough effort to improve why should anyone else care? Seems like it's their problem, because they will be missing out on racing.

How about reducing amount of races that give points, and fill all empty space with train events. So the amount of competition on actual race will increased, but ppl who feel that they cant compete with top racers (like me) can train all day long.

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SlixSC wrote:

Just look at the last Descent: Champions in season 6 http://poestatistics.com/events/1-hr-descent-champions-s06f174/

There are maybe 3-4 racers on that list that I heard of before and even the top 10 overall results are god awful, the competition in Descent: Champions is generally pretty low because I would argue that most competent racers simply don't give a fuck about that race.

One of the last races of the season is not a good example, since most people had no new season point target to hit and therefore didn't even play.

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unsane wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

Just look at the last Descent: Champions in season 6 http://poestatistics.com/events/1-hr-descent-champions-s06f174/

There are maybe 3-4 racers on that list that I heard of before and even the top 10 overall results are god awful, the competition in Descent: Champions is generally pretty low because I would argue that most competent racers simply don't give a fuck about that race.

One of the last races of the season is not a good example, since most people had no new season point target to hit and therefore didn't even play.

Fair enough, but isn't it ironic and almost hilarious how that brings us to yet another problem? Lack of incentive to keep racing past 1000 points, is that system ever going to be improved?