As newer player who's only played domination, this post just made me understand why people hate magic find so much, and why standard's economy is garbage.
Normally I don't actually have a problem with legacy items, since there's a few strong arguments for them - having super-expensive goal items, not losing long term players, etc.
However, in the case of IIQ/IIR, I don't think there should be any legacy items. Magic find directly impacts the functionality of the economy, and having legacy MF items prevents it from evolving, and creates an even bigger wealth gap between the richest and poorest (read: newest) players.
Personally, I'll likely just play one of the new leagues when they come out. That said, I don't see joining a new league every four months as something that's conducive to a sustainable player-base. I'm hoping GGG will either magically fix standard's economy, or create an alternative permanent league by the time the next four month leagues end.
This is an excellent post.
And yes, IIQ removal when you see just how much you can get is a much more significant change than some guy having a legacy Koam, or whatever unique.
If IIQ is to be removed, we need a new permanent league.
It alters the entire game, unless removed completely. This cannot come to pass.
An ARPG where only those with legacy equipment can magic find to the fullest?
The solution is to play in non-permanent leagues? This is an ARPG, one which I might add is among the very most 'grindy' of any released. It is expected to restart every four months? Give your heads a shake.
Ladders are neat-o and all, but this is just a death knell.
Leave the gem in as a drop, and truncate the rest.
Other solutions are not plausible. It all has to go, or none of it.
The last RL friend I got asked if he could "bring his characters/box to the new league" when I suggested playing it over just merging in with standard because of these changes. I have a feeling he will quit. He does not post on forums and the like, but if he goes, that is literally the last one on my friends list to go. I am totally disenchanted.
Last edited by gr00grams on Feb 13, 2014, 7:14:16 PM
I don't like the IIQ removal.
I suppose getting as much IIR as you can and doing like 200 Dominus runs will net at least some decent gear.
Thanks a lot GGG.
Last edited by TheDudeOfGaming on Feb 13, 2014, 7:13:18 PM
The post was something of a joke, as I myself only play Domination currently. ^>^
Oh, I didn't mean to single you out - I've just never actually seen IIQ on non-unique gear before, so I wasn't aware of how hard you can stack it in standard. For me, your post just crystallized exactly how standard's economy became garbage (via item/currency flooding - seriously, how did GGG not realize that would happen?), and why people hate MF so much.
Hopefully they'll make a permanent league that's not plagued by issues like this.
Standards economy would be exactly the same with or without IIQ on gear. Everything ends up there. At best you would slow the process but that process has already completed.
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ComradBlack --- Personally, I'll likely just play one of the new leagues when they come out. That said, I don't see joining a new league every four months as something that's conducive to a sustainable player-base. I'm hoping GGG will either magically fix standard's economy, or create an alternative permanent league by the time the next four month leagues end.
I have and idea. Do your experimetns on temporary leagues. Then make new perma league 'modernised standard' and then adopt all wicked ideas there. Standard does not need drastic changes like removal of all quantity (including items). Things like new monsters mods (if balanced) are fine but spare us surgery done by hatchet. Leave our dump alone.
Can I just state the obvious solution here? Make the current permanent leagues 'legacy' leagues and prevent people from creating new characters in them, then provide the
Nope. I would like to play in my dump scrapcore league the way I like.
Not everyone is going to like this, but it is a far more palatable solution than creating this absurd divide between new players and those who have accumulated the OP legacy items in the current permanent leagues.
If u have created new 'modernised standard'league then new player can choose. Go to 'more balanced'(theoretically) league or he choose old standard league and join race to obtain legacy items from the past(and stop creating more of them ffs its 1.0+ release.)
I personally dislike shrines in HC league becaouse it could cause very dangerous situation that will kill player in 90% of situations, like Igna + some tough shrine like diamond or acceleration.
In most cases you will be dead within 0,5 sec.
Similar thing about storm herald with acc shrine.
Many hc players dont have any idea about how shrines works and imo default leagues should stay as they are now.
Even after balance it could kill some HC players undeserved way(becaouse of lack in knowlegde or what would be even worse cos of bugs).
Whole this change is like puttin everything you had in kitchen(exiles,shrines,nem mods and possible next league features) into one dish(SC and HC) and trying to eat it -- maybe it would be tasty but in 90% cases it would be bad flavoured meal.
Also i dont like another "mf nerf" as i dislike last changes to that system, again more possibilities(balance between clear speed/mf) make game better and removing this and leaving only one possible way of improve(clear speed or "char power") makes game worse. As almost always MORE POSSIBILITIES = BETTER GAME. Only thing i could think this change is for better is iiq map system which could be scaling better with all that iiq removal. Hope i am wrong as i was with auras change when i was against and i love possible aura bulids now.
Another thing is all that legacy items which are arising definitely too fast and new players just cannot compete with expirienced ones in HC/SC leagues. This could hurt especially with pvp coming and probably SC(and hopefully HC) will become long term pvp leagues.
So imo steps in wrong direction GGG :/
Mostly agree. However I think realy balanced pvp needs separated league with modifed uniques, skill tree and overal mechanics. And I doubt GGG ever achieve any balance there. They will always overpower, overnerf or forgot about something as history shows.
The solution is to play in non-permanent leagues? This is an ARPG, one which I might add is among the very most 'grindy' of any released. It is expected to restart every four months? Give your heads a shake.
Like 20% of posts here shows ignorance or simple stupidity towards this subject. Lucky they are minority.
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Last edited by el_hombre_loco on Feb 13, 2014, 8:30:32 PM
Instead of removing IIQ completely and create a dozen more problems, you could just place heavier diminishing returns on IIQ (and IIR if needed).
The problem with the current MF system is that the difference between zero MF and stacked MF is too great.
0 MF. -> 2 rares
Modest/balanced 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 8-10 rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-30+ rares
What GGG should do is raise the base MF but place heavier MF diminishing return, so the modest MF benefits the most, while zero mf speed clear character can still find something and the stacked culler is still useful but not 100% needed for every group. The new system should look something like this
0 MF. -> 5-7 rares
Modest 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 12-15 rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-25 rares
This way all three play style is still valid and different, but the gap in wealth is not as great.
Instead of removing IIQ completely and create a dozen more problems, you could just place heavier diminishing returns on IIQ (and IIR if needed).
The problem with the current MF system is that the difference between zero MF and stacked MF is too great.
0 MF. -> 2 rares
Modest/balanced 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 8-10 rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-30+ rares
What GGG should do is raise the base MF but place heavier MF diminishing return, so the modest MF benefits the most, while zero mf speed clear character can still find something and the stacked culler is still useful but not 100% needed for every group. The new system should look something like this
0 MF. -> 5-7 rares
Modest 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 12-15 rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-25 rares
This way all three play style is still valid and different, but the gap in wealth is not as great.
This. Increase diminishing returns and increase global drop rates. Mfers(like me) will get slightly less, but others will get more.
Instead of removing IIQ completely and create a dozen more problems, you could just place heavier diminishing returns on IIQ (and IIR if needed).
The problem with the current MF system is that the difference between zero MF and stacked MF is too great.
0 MF. -> 2 rares
Modest/balanced 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 8-10 rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-30+ rares
What GGG should do is raise the base MF but place heavier MF diminishing return, so the modest MF benefits the most, while zero mf speed clear character can still find something and the stacked culler is still useful but not 100% needed for every group. The new system should look something like this
0 MF. -> 5-7 rares
Modest 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 12-15 rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-25 rares
This way all three play style is still valid and different, but the gap in wealth is not as great.
Leave drop rate for heavy MFers like it is now and I'm bought to the idea.
0 MF. -> 5-7 rares
Modest 50/100 MF that EVERY build can achieve through jewelers/uniques -> 12-15(maybe some more) rares.
Stacked 100+/400+ MF with dedicated culler/farmer -> 20-30 rares
Hate community since Aug A.D.2012. Distrust developer since 0.11.0.
Last edited by el_hombre_loco on Feb 13, 2014, 8:36:43 PM
Legacy uniques again? Lame. 2 less unique flasks with really interesting effects, no more headhunter and no gull. I'm assuming that berek's and the taming will be added to standard too, otherwise that's a lot of uniques to suddenly get rid of.
