Last night I had a dream...

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Back on topic, Fireball is a veeeeeeeeery good skill in the hands of a good player. 500% critical multiplier with fire penetration and proper synergy with gear/tree makes for a seriously viable pvp skill and it rapes pvm aswell. These arguments are constantly made by people that "think" they know what they are talking about through experience. The reality is their experience is null because the build/gear/gem choices/player are usually poor. This is a trending thing with all things in life. People keep talking/typing when they should really solidify the argument better in the first place. If you suck just get it and grow, don't go around saying this sucks that sucks when it doesn't in the right hands. Stuff like Molten Shell on the other hand is just flat out stupid against melee. If you concentrated effect it, it still has absurd range vs most melee attacks and weapon types. It can be outranged by a few options at that point. If you decide to just augment it in other ways without reducing its effective range you can still 1-2hit people without any effort off of a 4link and its impossible to out range it with melee at that point especially if you used increased area of effect.

A 500% multiplier is still very high and realisticly most people with dedicated well rounded pvp builds are only in that range as casters anyways. These elemental spells pale in comparison to spells like EK and melee due to armor scaling at first glance. On the subject of EK vs elemental spells, just look at the skill. It has huge base damage, benefits from physical scaling auras, doesn't require lmp or gmp to fan areas for damage thus never suffering a damage reduction. Its a very cookie cutter skill that dominates pvm with 0 criticals and 0 tree commitment, you can just spec straight defense/cast speed. In pvp ofcourse you need to widen your tree options a bit but gear and gem set up wise its still very leniant. Other spells you need to sacrifice damage for lmp or try to aim a single target spell unlike EK which you have to be retarded to miss with. You have to use penetration gems + added lightning or cold gems to add base damage for scaling. Of all the elemental spells fireball is the most viable pvp option because it 1 is viable as single target + splashs aoe + ignites + has solid base damage. Your gem selection is less restricted compared to Freezing pulse,Ice spear,Arc etc..etc.. but EK still >>>>>>>>>> all spells eeeeeeeeeeasily.

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MullaXul wrote:

Back on topic, Fireball is a veeeeeeeeery good skill in the hands of a good player.

And that is why all the top pvpers use it I guess:P Feel free to pick it up and prove you actually are as good as you think.

Btw I did not say it totally sucks. Just that it is far from as strong as many other skills and stuff in the game so I think nerfing it (and other spells) with a crit damage limit would be going in the wrong way. Besides a 500% crit limit wouldnt do anything against molten shell as it does not need more than maybe some 3-400% mult to kill anything on crit. So if you want to deal with molten one shots this (imo bad) way you need to cap crit dmg at something like 300% and everyone should be able to see how that would be really bad for the other spells.

But a thing I really like to see it for spells to have individual base crit multipliers just like they have base crit chances.

Edit: A thing that has not really been mentioned in this thread that really needs a fix is remote mine. Only reason I as a caster can win against max blockers so I should not complain but that stuff needs a change (after block is toned down to a point self cast is meaningful and not just a good way to shock stack yourself). The number of mines you can place without putting any points into traps/mines should probably be reduced to 2 or 3. A molten crit is nothing compared to a 5 remote mine stack with almost any skill. Both molten and mines can fairly easily be countered though.

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Grildrak wrote:

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MullaXul wrote:

Back on topic, Fireball is a veeeeeeeeery good skill in the hands of a good player.

And that is why all the top pvpers use it I guess:P Feel free to pick it up and prove you actually are as good as you think.

Btw I did not say it totally sucks. Just that it is far from as strong as many other skills and stuff in the game so I think nerfing it (and other spells) with a crit damage limit would be going in the wrong way. Besides a 500% crit limit wouldnt do anything against molten shell as it does not need more than maybe some 3-400% mult to kill anything on crit. So if you want to deal with molten one shots this (imo bad) way you need to cap crit dmg at something like 300% and everyone should be able to see how that would be really bad for the other spells.

But a thing I really like to see it for spells to have individual base crit multipliers just like they have base crit chances.

Edit: A thing that has not really been mentioned in this thread that really needs a fix is remote mine. Only reason I as a caster can win against max blockers so I should not complain but that stuff needs a change (after block is toned down to a point self cast is meaningful and not just a good way to shock stack yourself). The number of mines you can place without putting any points into traps/mines should probably be reduced to 2 or 3. A molten crit is nothing compared to a 5 remote mine stack with almost any skill. Both molten and mines can fairly easily be countered though.

"Top" pvpers..... you guys are as funny as the fighting game community or any other sheepish bads that wont think outside the box. The pvpers you concider top are ass, only a few are actually good. The majority are just bandwagon builds that scrape by, beating lesser players thus by default making them look better then they are. Not even taking into account the imbalance of the skills "top" pvpers gravitate to. So is it the player or the neglected gems/items?

I totally agree with you that many of them are just copy cats that couldn't even come up with a build of there own and had to copy others successful builds (that in most cases don't even require any skill at all playing).
But I couldn't really come up with a better way to describe them than "top pvpers". I avoided "pros" and "top players" as both would indicate that it was the player not the character winning the matches. Maybe I should have said "top pvp characters" but that would leave out all player skill and that is not really fair either. So I figured "top pvpers" would be the most neutral.

"So is it the player or the neglected gems/items?"

Maybe I am not as good as I think so it is probably a bit of both but the only way for you to prove me totally wrong is to convince someone you think is good to make a top fireball pvp build or do it yourself if you think you are a top player.

mmmmmhm... very philosophical arguments from both sides here.

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Barbara_Jay wrote:

mmmmmhm... very philosophical arguments from both sides here.

Who keeps leaving the cage unlocked, allowing you to get out?

LOL! This is hilarious!