Enlighten and the free-mason logo (now off topic - on the nature of mathematics)

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Belis wrote:

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Ajna wrote:

Kinda surprised that post didn't end in a Ron Paul endorsement.

also go play in trafflic Belis

What's 'trafflic? I suppose you mean traffic. In which case, I take that as a plead for my suicide. Just earlier, one democrat expressed his contempt towards me, and now another democrat wishes me dead? So much for democratic tolerance, equality, freedom of speech, compassion and all that hippie crap. Hypocrites.

First you go on about how much you hate me. Then you say hate has no place in modern society.

So how is it going to be? Make up your damn minds and speak the TRUTH!

Well you should be tolerant towards people wishing you some unfortunate events it is their freedom. I for myself can't think of any reason to hate jews... damn I don't even know a single one. I hate some christians... because actually know them. I also hate some atheists... at least I believe that's what they are.

But I would never hate someone because he belongs to a certain religion... that's plain stupid I really don't care what people believe or do not believe as long as they let me alone with it. And although I feel a certain disagreement towards israeli politics that has nothing to do with the religion.

Also I'm not sure what the illuminates have in common with jews... the illuminates or the free-masons are a society originating from christian theologists (mostly deists), it is very doubtful that they still have any influence somewhere.

And if all these conspiracies would be true obama would never have gotten reelected after acting against the israelis and losing the support of the jewish society in the usa... but than again not even 2% of the population consists of jews... and democracy... well the point of that governmental form is to give everyone a single vote... latinos are propably more influental in the usa than jews...

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

Please understand the difference between "contempt" and "hate".

Honestly, you don't rate enough of an emotional response from me to justify giving you my "hate", an emotion equally as strong as "love". If I don't care for you, why give you that much emotion? I understand that you want to feel hated, it comes with the territory you have staked out for yourself, sorry I can't comply.

Also, understand that while I might think your views are worthy of my contempt, I do believe that you have every right to express them freely. I would not seek to censor anyone. Far from it, I strongly agree with Freedom of Speech, especially in cases where that Speech might make some others uncomfortable. In the U.S. Bill Of Rights there is nothing granting the "Right not to be uncomfortable."

Burning books and banning speech is the tactic of your historical forebears, Belis, not the practice of the open minded and the free thinking.


Tangentially - Am I the only one here that would be really interested to validate the "purity" of Belis' blood line?

First of all, next time spare me your ad hominems, I will not respond to them.

If you believe my views are false, then why would you believe I have 'every right to express them freely'? Either you're lying to save face, or you're really that uncertain of your own beliefs and of that weak a character. Speak truth or not at all. Politics, propaganda, economy and world-view must be centered on TRUTH alone. If the followers of an ideology know that what they are fighting for is the truth, they won't tolerate anything else. Any true fanatic, any true idealist, any true revolutionary, any man with a true conviction is intolerant! For this reason I can at very least respect the Communists of the last century, and even the Islamists of today, because they have a conviction they believe in and are ready to give their lives for, even if their conviction is inconsistent with nature and thus completely false. To contrast, the democrat won't offer his life for anything, because he has faith in nothing, is loyal to nothing, and has no conviction. He is the epitome of cowardice and weakness. He is nothing but empty matter.

No honest man or woman is tolerant. There is no tolerance now, has been none in the past, and will certainly be none in the future. It's a matter of honesty and dishonesty, a matter of truth and of lies.

For this reason I agree with burning books - i.e burning lies.

I'll toss out a line from one of my favorite philosophers:

"There is no Truth, there is only my truth and your truth."

That's Friedrich Nietzsche, you may be familiar with how his writings were used by some of your heroes. Basically, he's saying that all truth is subjective, there is no objective Truth.

You are a good megaphone for your prophets of hate. Do you enjoy being a puppet?

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

I'll toss out a line from one of my favorite philosophers:

"There is no Truth, there is only my truth and your truth."

That's Friedrich Nietzsche, you may be familiar with how his writings were used by some of your heroes. Basically, he's saying that all truth is subjective, there is no objective Truth.

You are a good megaphone for your prophets of hate. Do you enjoy being a puppet?

Ah, how nice, Nietzsche!

"They ( guess who ) defied all those conditions under which, a people had been able to live, or had even stood in direct opposition to natural conditions - one by one they destorted religion, civilization, morality, history and psychology until each became a contradition of its natural significance."

"They ( guess who ) have a vital interest in making mankind sick, and in confusing the values of "good and "bad", "true" and "false" in a manner that is not only dangerous to life, but also slanders it."

Signed, Nietzsche

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Emphasy wrote:

Well you should be tolerant towards people wishing you some unfortunate events it is their freedom. I for myself can't think of any reason to hate jews... damn I don't even know a single one. I hate some christians... because actually know them. I also hate some atheists... at least I believe that's what they are.

But I would never hate someone because he belongs to a certain religion... that's plain stupid I really don't care what people believe or do not believe as long as they let me alone with it. And although I feel a certain disagreement towards israeli politics that has nothing to do with the religion.

Also I'm not sure what the illuminates have in common with jews... the illuminates or the free-masons are a society originating from christian theologists (mostly deists), it is very doubtful that they still have any influence somewhere.

And if all these conspiracies would be true obama would never have gotten reelected after acting against the israelis and losing the support of the jewish society in the usa... but than again not even 2% of the population consists of jews... and democracy... well the point of that governmental form is to give everyone a single vote... latinos are propably more influental in the usa than jews...

Yeah, sure. Because it is Mexicans who run Hollywood, because the names Warburg, Rotschild, Goldman Sachs et cetera have such a Latino cling to them, and because it is Mexicans who control the government through their Chicano lobbies. It is also Latinos who conspire to confiscate guns from American citizens, and it's also Latinos who run the sick porn-industry.

What's next, is it reptillians, aliens, or is it the 'germanic death cult'?

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Belis wrote:

If you believe my views are false, then why would you believe I have 'every right to express them freely'? Either you're lying to save face, or you're really that uncertain of your own beliefs and of that weak a character.Speak truth or not at all.

Well... obviously you are fairly alone with your position here. The point of democracy is to allow dump-heads to say whatever they want because the average person is smart enough to decide for themself. And actually this works fairly well. Although it is fairly easy to manipulate people to support causes that are totally unimportant to them, they actually know what is good for them. There are a few exceptions to this (the american health-system is such a thing... there are people voting against obama-care who clearly profit from the change, but I guess that is the failure to properly explain what the actual benefits are), but in general people act quite wisely given they have the proper information to make a decision. Thanks to our modern communication it is quite easy to provide a large amount of different views, arguments etc. so people can form an opinion based a wide array of information and a lot of different sources.

And the most important thing this has shown is that there is not such a thing as truth, at least not for politics or similar things. There are many ways that are right and propably as many that are clearly wrong. Just because one of the good ways lead to success doesn't mean the other ways wouldn't.

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Politics, propaganda, economy and world-view must be centered on TRUTH alone.

Hmm... isn't the point of propaganda to not be centered around truth...

Economy is a basic science... it can't be based on anything else than truth. A market always follows very few, but unfortunatly complex rules. You can't change them, however similar to any mathematic equation you can simply change parameters to get a better or worse outcome.

And Politics... it is just a certain form of manipulation. You can't manipulate or to use a not so negative word, influence, people with just the truth. Politics relies on the truth as much as on lies (although politicians normally try to avoid a simple lie, normally their remarks are just without any content), but mainly politics is about visions... and speaking of your vision can never be true or false, since it hasn't happened yet.

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If the followers of an ideology know that what they are fighting for is the truth, they won't tolerate anything else. Any true fanatic, any true idealist, any true revolutionary, any man with a true conviction is intolerant!

Most ideologies don't interfere with each other. Actually not even most of the religions do. The monotheistic religions all pray to the same god. The muslims even accept moses and jesus as prophets. The basic values of each of these religions are very similar. If they would really follow their ideology they shouldn't hate each other. But unfortunatly we don't know the truth there... because well only god knows it and he is too good damn busy to tell us. Most holy scriptures are very inconsistent so at least they fail to provide anything you could be fanatic about. Religion is basically just a tool you can use to manipulate people again mainly because of unproper knowledge.

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For this reason I can at very least respect the Communists of the last century, and even the Islamists of today, because they have a conviction they believe in and are ready to give their lives for, even if their conviction is inconsistent with nature and thus completely false. To contrast, the democrat won't offer his life for anything, because he has faith in nothing, is loyal to nothing, and has no conviction. He is the epitome of cowardice and weakness. He is nothing but empty matter.

Well the communists didn't fight for their conviction any more than a democrat did. Actually a lot of people died to fight for the amount of freedom they have know. The peasantwar in the 16th century, The war of independence, the french revolution, the revolutions in europe in the mid 19th century, the revolution in germany at the end of world war I... there are many occasions where people gave their live for freedom and democracy... actually I believe the fight for democracy and freedom is one of the things that more people died for than for a lot of other things. Yeah a lot of people did blow themself up for Allah, but I highly doubt that the number is as large as the amount of people sacrificing themself while fighting for their freedom.

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No honest man or woman is tolerant. There is no tolerance now, has been none in the past, and will certainly be none in the future. It's a matter of honesty and dishonesty, a matter of truth and of lies.

Well tolerance is just another way to say I don't care. And people aren't caring enough to be intolerant in most cases. At the moment I don't care which religion my neighbor belongs to I'm totally tolerant towards him. And if he don't care what my beliefs are odds are that we get a long just nicely.

Most people are very pragmatic... and pragmatism is a very tough to beat enemy for any intolerance. During world war II soviets and the western allies fought alongside although they had totally different ideologies. Nowadays the communistic china is the most important actor on the global market which is driven by capitalism. Thats just pragmatism.

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For this reason I agree with burning books - i.e burning lies.

Well funny in difference to all who did burn books, books are still around... you might think that this would tell a lesson.

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Emphasy wrote:

Well... obviously you are fairly alone with your position here. The point of democracy is to allow dump-heads to say whatever they want because the average person is smart enough to decide for themself. And actually this works fairly well. Although it is fairly easy to manipulate people to support causes that are totally unimportant to them, they actually know what is good for them. There are a few exceptions to this (the american health-system is such a thing... there are people voting against obama-care who clearly profit from the change, but I guess that is the failure to properly explain what the actual benefits are), but in general people act quite wisely given they have the proper information to make a decision. Thanks to our modern communication it is quite easy to provide a large amount of different views, arguments etc. so people can form an opinion based a wide array of information and a lot of different sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

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And the most important thing this has shown is that there is not such a thing as truth, at least not for politics or similar things. There are many ways that are right and propably as many that are clearly wrong. Just because one of the good ways lead to success doesn't mean the other ways wouldn't.

[Removed by Admin]

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Hmm... isn't the point of propaganda to not be centered around truth...

"...Good propaganda does not need to lie, indeed it may not lie. It has no reason to fear the truth. It is a mistake to believe that the people cannot take the truth. They can. It is only a matter of presenting the truth to people in a way that they will be able to understand. A propaganda that lies proves that it has a bad cause. It cannot be successful in the long run. A good propaganda will always come along that serves a good cause..." - Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Nuremberg Rally 1934

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Economy is a basic science... it can't be based on anything else than truth. A market always follows very few, but unfortunatly complex rules. You can't change them, however similar to any mathematic equation you can simply change parameters to get a better or worse outcome.

What determines the value of worthless paper? How can paper be worth more than any other thing on Earth? It is useless, it is a sham. Worse yet are electronic money, i.e imaginary digits on a screen that does not exist. Our present economic system is a lie. Paper is not money.

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And Politics... it is just a certain form of manipulation. You can't manipulate or to use a not so negative word, influence, people with just the truth. Politics relies on the truth as much as on lies (although politicians normally try to avoid a simple lie, normally their remarks are just without any content), but mainly politics is about visions... and speaking of your vision can never be true or false, since it hasn't happened yet.

My 'vision' is none other the divine purpose of Nature. I'm well founded.

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Well tolerance is just another way to say I don't care. And people aren't caring enough to be intolerant in most cases. At the moment I don't care which religion my neighbor belongs to I'm totally tolerant towards him. And if he don't care what my beliefs are odds are that we get a long just nicely.

What if this hypothetical neighbour of yours adheres to a religion that commands him to slit the throats of living creatures, or mutilating a baby's genitalia and then sucking it clean orally?

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Well funny in difference to all who did burn books, books are still around... you might think that this would tell a lesson.

The book burnings were merely symbolical.

Wait. wait. wait

This thread is greatly entertaining, but what?

Yous ay "Speak truth or not at all"

How can you play computer games, they are entirely lies. There is no such place as Wraeclast. There is no magic. You can't pick up armour that gives you more health at all.

Even expanding on this, because of inherent communication issues, the only way to RELIABLY only speak truth is to trade mathematical equations, which themselves are the only 100% unambigous unable to be misunderstood facts

How did this thread double in pages after they changed the gem? Wtf is going on?

Quality, on-topic board discussion at its finest...yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaah. :P