We welcome First Impression posts! Please be nice to those posts.

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ravenconspiracy wrote:

A quick google of the topics "is vaal pact worth it" reveals that it is and has been a contentious keystone, which means you are at best over simplifying and at worst just lying.

Well, that explains it all, your passive tree research probably wasn't any more thorough than your google search.

Look, we'll make this real simple. If you aren't the least bit interested in finding out why one of the best keystones in the game did nothing for your build, you know, if it doesn't really tickle your fancy, it would probably be the best course of action to just find another game. Because I'm dreading what would happen if you discovered the notorious 'caustic flask bug' :)

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adghar wrote:

Yeah, Vaal Pact is mostly an end-game Keystone. You're not going to get great results with it while leveling. At the very highest level of end-game play, it far outstrips any Regeneration or Leech-over-time builds in the current game version.

Different builds make use of different passives differently, which is probably a good thing for this game.

Most Keystones come with some inherent cost - they're designed to change the way you play, potentially offering huge power, but at an almost-equally-huge cost. It takes some time and experience to know when a stat is overpowered and when that very same stat is absolute garbage.

I appreciate this concise and seemingly accurate reply but it does nothing to blunt my indictment of the game as misleading, clunky, and disappointing for someone who wants to explore the game fresh and unspoiled by a wiki or character build guide.

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raics wrote:

blah blah blah

Dude, MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT I WANTED TO EXPLORE THE GAME FRESH - yet at every step I found the in-game info misleading... eventually I started doing research in the wiki and build guides and discovered that, yes, the keystone aren't really what they appear to be, and moreover mechanics like melee physical damage, and evasion, while appearing to be viable wings of the game, are really just trap choices for pleb noobs who need to l2gitgood read wiki copy build blah blah blah.

My feedback: I don't like it.

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ravenconspiracy wrote:

Dude, MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT I WANTED TO EXPLORE THE GAME FRESH - yet at every step I found the in-game info misleading... eventually I started doing research in the wiki and build guides and discovered that, yes, the keystone aren't really what they appear to be, and moreover mechanics like melee physical damage, and evasion, while appearing to be viable wings of the game, are really just trap choices for pleb noobs who need to l2gitgood read wiki copy build blah blah blah.

Vaal Pact is exactly what it appears to be, it just isn't equally valuable for everyone, it may bury you or make you a god and it's your job as a gamer to know which one will happen, the game can't and shouldn't tell you that.

Also, most things in the game work, even those the wider audience wouldn't touch with a 6ft pole, by the popular opinion you read on reddit and forum, many enjoy doing exactly that. It's just that some things are easier to use and some are harder, you need to understand the game better to use them properly. And know which is which.

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ravenconspiracy wrote:

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raics wrote:

blah blah blah

Dude, MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT I WANTED TO EXPLORE THE GAME FRESH - yet at every step I found the in-game info misleading... eventually I started doing research in the wiki and build guides and discovered that, yes, the keystone aren't really what they appear to be, and moreover mechanics like melee physical damage, and evasion, while appearing to be viable wings of the game, are really just trap choices for pleb noobs who need to l2gitgood read wiki copy build blah blah blah.

My feedback: I don't like it.

Just throwing this out there, but raics is a pillar of the community who must have some strange mental disorder that makes him have fun sitting on the website helping people all day. I'm 1.5K hours into the game and when he speaks I listen. He is a nice guy trying to help you out.

After reading all your posts it sounds like you played and it was too hard and you did not like that. This may not be the game for you then. Poe is similar to fighting games where if you start a fighting game you will get destroyed and there is nothing you can do. The game wont sugar coat things or hold your hand or tell you how to solve the problems it presents you. They kind of people that most enjoy the game are the ones who after they get pushed down respond with challenge excepted. The game promotes problem solving and critical thinking.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like your research about trap skills and defenses with stuff like regen, evasion, melee are some path of math lvl 90 optimizations min maxing that won't be relevant to you. Hell, I've never bothered to get to lvl 90 and I find it not the relevant for me.

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raics wrote:

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ravenconspiracy wrote:

For vets, I'm sure all these things seem clear, but if you look at the in-game text on gear, items, keystones, etc from a fresh perspective, you see how horribly misleading so many things are and how much new players are set-up for disappointment if they naively select say a melee, evasion based character like the duelist and then go on to grab some of the worst keystones WHICH ALL SOUND REALLY COOL but actually will cripple your character.

Well, your complaints have merit, the game is big on noobtraps which is a good way to know a veteran, he doesn't fall for them. It's a design point, the game has a steep learning curve and you need to learn what works and what doesn't (or copy, but there's no fun in that).

That said, the game has a simple threshold system, as long as you ticked the necessary boxes it leaves you a fair amount of freedom beyond that. Unfortunately, that also won't happen right away, until you know what you're doing you won't be able to get creative.

On the bright side, most of the game elements have some use, sometimes mainstream and sometimes niche but few are truly useless, you just have to learn to use them properly.

I agree with both of you and disagree with both of you.

First of all, noobtraps are indeed bad design, because they represent false choices, encourage a meta, and force players to homogenize.

But noobtrabs in PoE are not bad design, because, contrary to what you are implying, noobtraps in PoE are not there by design. They are balance farts, and works in progress. GGG is trying to remove them, but as we all know removing one noobtrap can create two more, if you are not careful.

Now, perfect balance is impossible, and some aspects of the game are so ridiculously out of balance that GGG deserves the harsh criticism it receives.

But it seems that ravenconspiracy is complaining not so much about this but about the "fact" that melee, evasion, etc. are useless, which experienced players know is a gross misrepresentation, or exaggeration at best. Evasion, for example, is not a "noobtrap." It is simply slightly more niche than it represents itself to be. And Vaal Pact and Blood Mana are not noobtraps. But you have to know how to use them.

I think the biggest flaw of the passive tree by far, from the perspective of a new player, is the fact that the degree to which life nodes are important is absolutely not adequately conveyed to a player. But then neither is the degree to which life on rare armor pieces is important adequately conveyed. I think a loading screen should be added which says something like, "Try to have at least 3,000 life by lvl X."

@ravenconspiracy Keep in mind that the first character you create in PoE is expected to suck. This is NOT the case in most games, and therefore it's quite difficult for some RPG fans to wrap their heads around this iterative style of gameplay. Each new League brings with it a full free respec, however, and an opportunity to build your character even better. Open your character sheet, and LOOK at what your current regen rate is before you give it up for the sake of Vaal Pact. If you are close to the node anyway (and Duelists are not--so travelling that far on the tree represents a risky decision in itself), then try it and then use a Regret Orb if you don't like it. Most importantly, try to enjoy the journey! And if the journey sounds like one you won't enjoy, then don't take it, and play a different game which sounds more appealing. No shame in that.

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ravenconspiracy wrote:

So you are trying to say that misleading in-game info on keystones which LITERALLY do your character more harm than good is good design?

You think a request to remove misleading info is a call for hand holding?

No, I am saying that your lack of knowledge makes you misinterpret those mechanics, and that PoE has soooo many parameters to take into account for building a correct character that it does happen when you start the game.

In short : you are calling those noobtrap, but it isn't.
And yes, as Gibbousmoon said, there are ( and will always be ) balance issues also.

Now as I said earlier, I do think that many information would be better in the game with information linked to it, such as how leech works.
It being from NPC or where ever.


And yes, VP is one of the strongest keystones, that gives the most balance issues because it gives enormous sustain and therefore power.

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Fruz wrote:

And yes, VP is one of the strongest keystones, that gives the most balance issues because it gives enormous sustain and therefore power.

The biggest problem with VP is that it removes the incentive to balance your build between defense and offense, because it effectively marries the two for certain builds. It is therefore not merely way too powerful but also qualitatively problematic.

But perhaps we shouldn't clutter this thread with discussions about our own pet peeves. ;)

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

And yes, VP is one of the strongest keystones, that gives the most balance issues because it gives enormous sustain and therefore power.

The biggest problem with VP is that it removes the incentive to balance your build between defense and offense, because it effectively marries the two for certain builds. It is therefore not merely way too powerful but also qualitatively problematic.

But perhaps we shouldn't clutter this thread with discussions about our own pet peeves. ;)

Well the biggest issue with VP is the unlimited instant aspect that gives ES the enormous sustain. Slap a limit of 25% of EHP pool per second and it gets instantly more balanced. As it is right now, it renders increased leech rate (which is already capped) obsolete...

If they want to keep instant leech they need to cap it to work as worse as regular leech does with severe investment - so instant leech always takes a set amount of lets say 4 seconds to get you to full life, and by heavily investing in leech rate and upping the cap, you should only get to 3/4 seconds to leech your EHP pool back.

That way you'll forfeit all the investments for increased leech rate by going VP and no regen (and gain hopefully at least 10-15 passive points).

Leech should always be a sustain mechanic that never works perfectly alone, it should be helped by other means - regen, LGOH, MoM, investments in armour/evasion + block/dodge preferably - as we all see the Allmighty Sponge that rules the content by just allowing huge buffer + obscene damage + instant leech which trounces everything else...

I've had PoE for a while but it took me a couple of false starts before I managed to get into it. It has a reasonably high learning curve (at least for me) and I was a bit confused and overwhelmed at first but thought it looked like something I would enjoy once I got going. I'm glad I persevered as I'm really loving it at the moment.

I like the micro transaction payment system although I think most cosmetic items are quite expensive and a bit overpriced. I think that might be a problem for some people and if I recommended the game to anyone I'd warn them it could get expensive if they want to enjoy that side of it.

My favourite things I would say so far are that fantastic skill tree and the awesome stash tab system. I've been playing D3 for a while and the minimal storage system there was a deal breaker for me as I love to horde, collect and arrange my gear and it was a constant headache worrying about lack of space. Some people don't mind it, but I hated that part of it so PoE gets a massive two thumbs up from me there.

One of things that I think needs improving is being able to scroll the camera out. It's too close and I have to play in windowed mode and have very wide narrow window to make it look what I think is the best way to play.

Another thing is the purchased items tab makes my skin crawl. It's so frustrating not being able to move the pieces where you want and have some sort of ordered system going on there. It's really bad the way it is and seeing you pay so much for the cosmetic items you should be able to sort them how you like.

I'd also like more feminine looking gear for the female characters. I'd personally prefer the full on slutmog look, but know that's not to everyone's taste so some sort of compromise between that and the homeless bag lady look would be an improvement.

All in all it's a great game.