Support gems on Curses

If you arent using curses on the higher level maps, then you are doing it wrong, its that simple.
If you are using spells to kill enemies, there is absolutely no reason to not use elemental weakness curses (regardless of elemental type).
If you are entering a dangerous map on purpose (to get more map drops) then there is no reason to not use a defensive curse like enfeeble or temporal chains.

If you purposefully enter a hard map with a lot of hard modifiers, and then dont use a curse. you are running the danger of dying, and dying at a higher level means you are probably going to lose weeks of progress.

Curses increase killspeed or alternatively increase surviability both of which are mandatory if you wanna play with the big dogs in the ladder.
You dont need to use them, but if you dont use it in your build, then you cant call your build a "serious build" that will compete with other builds at the top of the ladder.

We are going way off topic though, so lets just agree to disagree if you really believe that curses arent mandatory for serious builds.

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gh0un wrote:

If you arent using curses on the higher level maps, then you are doing it wrong, its that simple.
If you are using spells to kill enemies, there is absolutely no reason to not use elemental weakness curses (regardless of elemental type).
If you are entering a dangerous map on purpose (to get more map drops) then there is no reason to not use a defensive curse like enfeeble or temporal chains.

If you purposefully enter a hard map with a lot of hard modifiers, and then dont use a curse. you are running the danger of dying, and dying at a higher level means you are probably going to lose weeks of progress.

Curses increase killspeed or alternatively increase surviability both of which are mandatory if you wanna play with the big dogs in the ladder.
You dont need to use them, but if you dont use it in your build, then you cant call your build a "serious build" that will compete with other builds at the top of the ladder.

We are going way off topic though, so lets just agree to disagree if you really believe that curses arent mandatory for serious builds.

If curses are that powerful, and mandatory, as you say. Then they shouldn't need anymore support, and instead - should be nerfed. As nothing should be mandatory to make a competitive build in PoE.

That being said, I don't agree they are...but based on your own suggestions, Curses don't need anymore support ;)

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Elynole wrote:

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gh0un wrote:

If you arent using curses on the higher level maps, then you are doing it wrong, its that simple.
If you are using spells to kill enemies, there is absolutely no reason to not use elemental weakness curses (regardless of elemental type).
If you are entering a dangerous map on purpose (to get more map drops) then there is no reason to not use a defensive curse like enfeeble or temporal chains.

If you purposefully enter a hard map with a lot of hard modifiers, and then dont use a curse. you are running the danger of dying, and dying at a higher level means you are probably going to lose weeks of progress.

Curses increase killspeed or alternatively increase surviability both of which are mandatory if you wanna play with the big dogs in the ladder.
You dont need to use them, but if you dont use it in your build, then you cant call your build a "serious build" that will compete with other builds at the top of the ladder.

We are going way off topic though, so lets just agree to disagree if you really believe that curses arent mandatory for serious builds.

If curses are that powerful, and mandatory, as you say. Then they shouldn't need anymore support, and instead - should be nerfed. As nothing should be mandatory to make a competitive build in PoE.

That being said, I don't agree they are...but based on your own suggestions, Curses don't need anymore support ;)

You can look at this from another standpoint.
Curses are mandatory, if you give them more support gems however, then not every curse is going to look the same and thus you arent limited to a specific curse.

Lets take cold witches for example
For damage and survivability, the best curse to use is the frostbite curse, because it not only increases damage done by a large margin, but it also increases survivability by increasing the chance to freeze your enemies.
Frostbite is the only really good option for cold witches, except maybe temporal chains against fast moving enemies that you cant freeze in time.

If more support gems were enabled for frostbite, then we would have a lot more diverse skillbuilds regarding the curse to use.
We would still see cold witches using frostbite, but now they can choose with which support gem they want to enhance the curse.


The thing you are talking about is an issue that is very much true, but you dont make it worse by increasing diversity by giving more option for curses.
The problem is already there, curses are way too strong, and there is actually no way around it because there are enough skillslots to fit curses into basically any build, which in return makes them mandatory.
If curses being mandatory is a given already beforehand, then increasing their diversity by enabling more support gems for them is a positive thing to do, dont you think so aswell?
I certainly do.

This thread is almost lulzy. Almost.

Curses are not mandatory; they simply have no downside. Whether that spells "MANDATORYZOMG" to you, does not mean it is mandatory for others.

Curses are powerful, not mandatory, but as close to it as this game has, now, basically, your suggestion would make a 3L for curses an absolute necessity, rather then the already established socket requirement for curses?

Requirements are not good, as you suggest them. The devs removed the IIR/IIQ passives from the tree for the same reason; Requirements are bad.

Personally? I rarely, if ever, support my curse. The benefits are extremely marginal at best. If I do support it, it's with spell totem, which is more due to spell totem being exceptionally overpowered, rather then anything to do with curses.

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EpsiIon wrote:

This thread is almost lulzy. Almost.

Curses are not mandatory; they simply have no downside. Whether that spells "MANDATORYZOMG" to you, does not mean it is mandatory for others.

Curses are powerful, not mandatory, but as close to it as this game has, now, basically, your suggestion would make a 3L for curses an absolute necessity, rather then the already established socket requirement for curses?

Requirements are not good, as you suggest them. The devs removed the IIR/IIQ passives from the tree for the same reason; Requirements are bad.

Personally? I rarely, if ever, support my curse. The benefits are extremely marginal at best. If I do support it, it's with spell totem, which is more due to spell totem being exceptionally overpowered, rather then anything to do with curses.

This post is lulzy.
There are plenty of mandatory things in this game. Dont kid yourself by stating the opposite.
The way of removing the problem of mandatory skills/passives is to give more options that are equally powerful in order to give the player more alternatives to choose from.
If you remove other options, then the only thing that is left is one singular mandatory skill/passive which creates the core problem: no diversity in skill builds/skill gems.
Luckily there isnt only one curse, there are several, so you can choose from a lot of alternatives for different skill builds.

You even admit yourself that curses dont have a downside, therefore they are mandatory, its really that simple.
Just because it doesnt suit your playstyle doesnt mean that it isnt a mandatory skill to optimize the build you are using.
There are plenty of mandatory things in this game, the trick to prevent too similar builds from happening too often is to have enough alternatives that are equally powerful.
This has already been accomplished for skill builds, since there are plenty of ways you can play your character and plenty of passive skill builds you can go for that are almost all equally powerful, the devs managed to get a nice balance on the passive skill tree.

Mandatory things in a game arent preventable, its part of the game.
Do you think you can play Path of Exile without health? You cant.
Skilling health nodes and getting some health on your gear is as mandatory as using curses.
Luckily there is an alternative which is energy shield. Since energy shield is equally strong, you can choose between alternatives to health up your character: raw health or energy shield.
You can choose not to get any health or energy shield because it doesnt fit your gamestyle, but that doesnt mean that it doesnt optimize your build.
Running around with subpar health in PoE is going to lead to your death, sooner or later.

I like the part where you compared curses to health.

The Templar doen't get any good physical curses.

I did a HC Templar facebreaker build from 1-58 with no curses.

Staying on topic, i would be fair(imo) if added elemental damage gems could trigger from curses.

note that this gem says ADDED not increase.

This made me think about some theory crafting;
since the curse could triggers damage
(the curse does not do damage only the passive gems)
COULD it then allow other passives to work?

Could the passive trigger gems like
life on hit
life leech(3% of 24–36 cold dmg ohhhh so imba)
penetration passives
item rarity/quantity(good luck trying to kill somthing with that passive skill gem tho haha)
ect

So just an idea i got doesnt seem too imba either

Curses are indeed 'mandatory', as they have no downsides, and can dramatically improve your DPS or survivability. If you don't use them, you are gimping yourself. This pains me, as I see curses as a very witchy thing, yet I have to use them on my roguish character (enfeeble, mostly). Same thing with auras; they have disadvantages, but these are easy to nullify if you build your character right.

In any case, Mark already made it very clear why the current mf gems do not, and will never be made to work with curses.

Let me guess, you play a summoner :P.

haha u got me there but i also made a multy curse witch, so that why im mostly interested in this

well if u guys really dont want the mf on there(i may add to the fiery argument later), what do you guys think about the added lighting damage, for example?