PvP Feedback

I didn't want to toss names around but ya Dismantle,Dukan and QQDyness are all trolls that just literally do nothing but stand there. Sometimes they'll pester you with their main skills that do almost no damage so you will attack them back, thus triggering all sorts of shit. I agree between troll builds and EA every match PvP has fallen pretty hard. Shame too because realistically compared to where we were 2 years ago PvP has come a long way like the core game. There's potential for much more diversity in builds and the balance is overall better everywhere but a few areas.

When I was #1 on ladder, I went afk (literally walked away and watched tv) after wasting 2 rounds vs Dismantle. Ended up drawing out all 5 rounds or so, result me - 150+ points and him moving up a few places til he was #9 or 10. Tank builds should be a thing, but not to this extreme. There shouldn't be do nothing builds trolling their way through PvP.

block and es regen should be nerfed I find. Also adding block pen on all weapons nods would help a lot.

They nerfed raw dps of most weapons but made the AS stronger.

It s impossible to hurt block users with so much AS on weapons now and them having so much ES regen.

They added the block nod reduction on swords because swords had more AS but now all weapons almost got Too much AS. So universal block pen nods should appear on tree.

Also in all sport there is malus for draw.

Draw in pvp should win 0 pt. With this maybe troll builds would have to actually win instead of not moving and getting points.

Block is more than fine, i get obliterated with 78% block under rumi (if there is some things as over block but I highly doubt that) by some swords and axes users. Just use Heavy strike instead of cyclone and you'll get through it eventually.

But I do agree that ES regen is out of control now with fragile bloom jewels (shav ring was a bit more difficult to get).

Anyway I played a bit yesterday (after a 2 week break) to check the meta and it's still as ridiculous as ever. PA tank running all around, ES tank standing not doing shit, EA doing derp wallstacks, Traps doing derp traps stacks, Glyph Mark oneshoting everything with split, ect...

It's such a mess it's depressing , no wonder GGG gave up balancing that shit. Add that to the the player base getting smaller and smaller every day and I don't give more than 2/3 months before HLD is back to 10 people comparing how "wealthy" they are on a ghost town ladder.

I think the main thing is that GGG had to balance shit around a lot of mirrored players and that's why some builds are suffering, mostly in regard to PvP. The lack of diversity isn't because players aren't creative, it's just people going with what works. It feels like, as of now, if your build isn't good enough, it's just not good enough. Before 2.0, rlowe was my little witch who (kinda) could, and ice spear shotgun was key to victory, other players with disadvantages could learn how to overcome them and better themselves, think of how to play differently to win, and PvP was genuinely enjoyable and actually exciting. Now it's really just been narrowed down to "this works, that doesn't", and it kind of ruins it. The only real plus side to any of this is arc/tempest players like Greviel and whomever else he accuses of "stealing his build" won't always dominate as much as they used to. Always a plus, right?

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ocd_xana wrote:

I think the main thing is that GGG had to balance shit around a lot of mirrored players and that's why some builds are suffering, mostly in regard to PvP. The lack of diversity isn't because players aren't creative, it's just people going with what works. It feels like, as of now, if your build isn't good enough, it's just not good enough. Before 2.0, rlowe was my little witch who (kinda) could, and ice spear shotgun was key to victory, other players with disadvantages could learn how to overcome them and better themselves, think of how to play differently to win, and PvP was genuinely enjoyable and actually exciting. Now it's really just been narrowed down to "this works, that doesn't", and it kind of ruins it. The only real plus side to any of this is arc/tempest players like Greviel and whomever else he accuses of "stealing his build" won't always dominate as much as they used to. Always a plus, right?

The less braindead you have to be to win is always a plus. I continue to say I feel things are sitting in a good spot because I look at how they were at the beginning and how few viable options there were. How stupid the damage output was, how retarded early 0 cooldown cwdt was and other things that are now remedied. There were some things just left in place that shouldn't of been though. I don't feel they are balancing the game around mirrored gear. If anything its the complete opposite, they are looking at temp leagues and whats currently in the game to assess balance. Mirrored/Legacy gear just turns the knife and really makes shit ridiculous. Though in some cases even if you're using currently available gear and reaching full potential, things like crit bow are too powerful. I currently am using 100% items anyone can get even on temp leagues and hang vs full Mirrored/Legacy players worth 10x my character cost. As for what works and what doesn't, there are a lot more things that have potential then what you'll see on a daily basis because they are harder to make work. All games and most things in life boil down to this same concept. If its easy or you can just follow the leader and succeed, that's the road taken more often then not. I saw a guy using Whispering Ice yesterday, I feel that build when min-maxed will be very legit. I actually already planned out a build and tree for it so I can make one myself. Other spells have their time to shine now too. Melee basically every weapon is viable now given the tree placement of keystones,jewels and physical damage no longer mitigated by auto cwdt EC/IC set ups. People are too lazy to even self cast EC to still take advantage of IC for example, that speaks volumes imo.


Edit: I'd like to add people need to stop being so discouraged. You can PvP, just know what you need to succeed. Don't go in like a moron with - resists or thinking you can down players and survive them like its PvM. It takes a completely different mind set but you can use a PvM character to PvP just like you can PvM with a PvP character. This isn't a game that locks you into 1 decision, it was developed in the smartest of ways to allow endless customization and creativity. Don't be the guy that loses to something then wastes their entire resources to mimic it only to fail til you're broke and useless. Don't be the guy that believes everything you see or are told. Figure the shit out yourself, test it, watch someone do it and understand it. Don't be the guy that walks into people with your face or steps on traps/mines without even attempting to find an answer to it. Use ranges, move, be smart and in your best efforts avoid PvP being hit for hit trade for trade retard fest gear checking. Don't stand there as a caster or any other non melee character and hold down attack then ask yourself why you died when melee is ontop of you when you refused to move. It's possible, you have a mouse you have a keyboard...everyone can do it.

More people should be PvPing. They don't because they think its all fucked up and broken. It's got its share of issues but its better then it was in many ways. Like this PA is overpowered thread for example. Don't go in half ass then make claims something is broken. If you're honestly maxed out everywhere you can be and know you're playing the game properly yet still get 1shot or ruined by something, then you can start to question why such a thing is so strong.

I just miss 1.1-1.3 times, before ggg even bothered. To me 1.3 changed pvp to the worse and now they can't clean up the mess. We could go hours upon hours 3v3ing alt 6v6ing if possible(Shadow, me, rich, slay, mulla, dullahan, firebrand(to some degree), tempallo, dub, hege, later also missue and a few more people) and it was to me the best pvp this game has had yet. Even though some things were strong and possibly OP, it was still great fun and we tried to use tactics together(Me and shadow ran some wombo combo) and it wasn't 100% balanced but it was good enough.

Nowadays it can be hard to get teams and all due to both inactivity and lack of interest due to poor balancing. Only thing right now seems to be 1v1 which I honestly find quite boring and repetetive, but that's just my thoughts. Not really a feedback but a flashback

Edit: Also back then it felt like more people were dedicated pvpers and tried their best to counter different things, now it's more average people wondering why their pve char doesnt work optimally in pvp even though they spent 1000s of exalts

If you are playing a pvp game, you obviously aim for the top. The fact that you will reach it or not doesnt matter but that's the possibility of it who push you to grind an improve your character.

The problem here is that you are 85% dependent on your gear (i'll give 15% for skills and flask management) the gear ceiling in this game is so high that you'll need hundreds of hours of grind to start being efficient. But the player base is so small that it's not really worth it. Why invest so much time to fight only the same players over and over and over and over again. I mean sarn is empty most of the time, but when a few people join it, I usually can tell straight away who the are one I can beat and the one I can't. It's even worse in 1vs1. The situation is THAT bad right now.

Add to that the fact that balance is a forgotten thing now and lot of player RMT without even hiding that fact and you can see why pvp is so unpopular. Why invest so much time for such little return investment.

I have tons of cool pvp builds ideas, i usually spend a few hours thoerycrafting them and when I wanna start playing i got this little reminder telling me : "Why bother, you'll facestomp noobs but will get destroyed by EA/Traps/Crit/Legacy Kaom/Mirrors Users/ect...." And that's coming from someone with and aRPG pvp background who spent quite a lot of time studying and practicing pvp in this game. The average players won't even ask themself that question, they'll check 1vs1 or the arena, get raped and never bother again because there is not a single hope of win for them.

Pvp in D2 was more popular because even if viable gear was hard to get, it wasn't impossible and the difference between pvp gear wasn't so high. An average player could score a few kills and get motivated to improve his gear/character. PoE starting level is WAY too high for an average player and even if you reach that level, the difference between an average pvp player and a top one is so high and the player base so small that I honestly understand why it's not popular at all (especially when you add RMT to the mix). That's also why troll golem builds are so popular those days, it's way cheaper to build for defense than offense in this game and at least it give those players the feeling to be on the same level ("I can't beat this guy but he can't be me either").

I do love pvp theorycrafting, that's one of the thing I like the most in video games and I was so happy when PoE was released but i finally reached the conclusion that I have neither the time to grind enough currency to have the possibility to reach the top, neither the stupidity to spend hundreds of dollars for pixels on a game with a pvp player base of 30 (being the god of 30 players, good work guys, with the money you spent you could have travel Asia for months instead of siting behind your screen). The lack of balance make all this even worse.

And sadly I don't see things changing at all in the future.

Man you guys are grim. There's better balance now then in the past. Dont let the fact everyones EA discourage you. If GGG would tweak the few things worth tweaking and provide us cool PvP events on a daily basis I bet PvP would grow. Those team blitz,ffas,1v1s,ctfs were really good ways to bring ppl together. Leos dailies shouldn't be the only time ppl PvP, then to do nothing but enter arena and go "Leo can i get a round please" or sit in Sarn trying to bum kills.

Gear ceiling isn't that bad. I've proven you dont need expensive gear and build diversity/viability is at an all time high for anyone willing to try it that understands the game.

Diablo2 had rmt and gear requirements too. We had ppl in hacked bugged gear with programs out the ass and full rejuvs. Even gm 1v1 or team duels had worse balance. Trust me that was my game before I found this one. Every in and out from melee to caster I knew how it worked. You had more cookie cutter choices for gear and almost everyone was a clone. Thats why ppl think it was more accessible because there was far less work involved. Damage vs survivability was as whacked and enigma literally killed off run/walk builds further reducing the uniqueness of builds. Synergies basically held your hand and you could connect the dots on the tree too. Poe is a better game in every single way except the popularity and pking element. Popularity I'm chalking up to the fact its not easy so ppl would rather build sloppy shitty builds and stomp monsters Instead of getting exposed and having to rethink their approach.

Unless top players start holding ppls hands and basically laying out trees and gear, it'll remain a niche. A large portion of the pvm population is just ppl copying a forum build. These builds generally have 6links and quality gear, yet ppl manage them. Thats even one of the complaints i hear often. How theres no build to follow or ppl wont share their gear etc. Thats pretty clear cut reasoning why pvp is low population. You also have the opposite end of the spectrum, some of the absolute crappiest ppl I've ever seen have viable characters BC the mechanics are so good it can cover you...cough tempallo cough.

Point is Poe's many freedoms is what makes the game overwhelming to PvP in for the average player. Diablo was polluted by average players but it was ez and if you couldn't hang you'd just get more hacks.

This is a trend in all games. Copy what you see, gain moderate success or fail then sheep toward the next thing you see working. It keeps casuals populating games. So the fact PvP none of us are willing to just expose our characters and make build threads it turns away many potential pvpers. What could help is make a few entry build guides using obtainable gear so ppl can do them if they wanted. Anyone wanting PvP to grow should throw one together.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1375204 Here's something I threw together for beginners.

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lolozori wrote:

block and es regen should be nerfed I find. Also adding block pen on all weapons nods would help a lot.

They nerfed raw dps of most weapons but made the AS stronger.

It s impossible to hurt block users with so much AS on weapons now and them having so much ES regen.

They added the block nod reduction on swords because swords had more AS but now all weapons almost got Too much AS. So universal block pen nods should appear on tree.

Also in all sport there is malus for draw.

Draw in pvp should win 0 pt. With this maybe troll builds would have to actually win instead of not moving and getting points.

i never had problems with swords vs block builds, block builds are okay i think. Cwdt + ball lightning blind is VERY hard counter for melee / especially crit builds. But i cant complain you know.

I never had problem vs block builds with my sword, and i must say i was a bit OP vs those builds.

Get swords. Not jewelled foils, get Vaal rapiers. If you nerf block more, block would be totally trash. Thats all i can say.

Also i cant understand the whining about 'mirrored items.' seriously.

I have a freelance / home office work. I work and play together.

I spend my nights making projects and looking for profit in trade chat. I do hardcore item flipping since 6 months. I gave a break for 1 month to enjoy pvp and i started flipping once again cause ill come with a new build soon.

I did 27 exalts profit in 2 days of flipping. I bought 4 kingsguard 6l by 26ex, sold by 30ex. I sold belly for 25 which i bought for 22. I cant remember the rest but total profit is 27ex.

I always wanted to be a pvp player but instead of that i did farming / item flipping / über - normal atziri service for 1 year. Because i knew, you can create your ideas when you have monies. 1 year of hard working and i have like 1700ex worth at the moment. I was against item flipping for very long time but a talk i had with skalpo 6 months ago changed my mind.

And now you tell me, 'mirrored items' unbalanced. Okay, you have amazing ideas, you have 160IQ, you are brilliant, but you gotta have enough passion to be able to afford expenses of your build too. Do you think i like flipping items, try hard farming? No!

An idea

I am also thinking about gathering all mirror item crafters, convince GGG to make a new realm where all mirrored items are available for everyone, all linked, coloring with endless chromatics etc. (maybe endless eternals too)

All crafters will submit their items to GGG database, and in that realm we all be able to use and play pvp with the items we desire. Its going to be ''pvp only'' realm.

We should start a thread and be pressuring about it to GGG i think. This can be revolutionary. Imagine how popular pvp would be, imagine how amazing experience would be to play every item you need. Endless theorycrafting, endless ideas... endless possibilities, total freedom.