More than just 1v1 Tourneys, GGG will you clarify some bewilderments?

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

LvL 28 is not a random lvl either. Piety drops lvl 28 godly items which seems like the ideal farm for normal difficulty pvp since its the end game boss. the item lvl affixes make sense for the lvl cap as do the skill gems / uniques. I take it u dont lvl 28 pvp? If u did you would understand why lvl 28 cap is so magical.

Removing lvl 28 pvp absolutely punishes players. I could understand them adding more lvl range events but to completely remove lvl 28 capped dueling is out of the question. Some make ask why do I say this? I say this because this feature, lvl 28 pvp, has been part of the game so long that players have tried to create a community around it and like chris wilson said himself, he doesnt like making items obsolete by introducing higher lvl caps and better quality weapons. Removing lvl 28 pvp would do EXACTLY that, make all the lvl 28 pvpers gear obsolete and WORTHLESS. If other pvpers want a fresh start and crack at pvp without doin lvl 28 or open merci, create a cruel difficulty pvp...its been speculated about for SO LONG.

lvl 28 pvp is integrated into pvp system, removing punishes a large player base and goes against Chris Wilson's past started morality. Chris's reasoning for not introducing near lvl cap past 100 and new weapons to the game that make others obsolete is part of the reason why I invested into this game. I spent 1k hours on diablo 3, I finished infernal act 4 before any of the nerfs. Then they made it easy to farm by lowering the difficulty, all my items took a hit. I continued farming, they added more difficulty mods and new boss modes and paragon system which continued to devalue my items, some I spent 20 mill and more on when gold was still worth like 8 bukcs a mill. This is all irrelevant for the most part other than my reason for leaving that game for PoE.


ps moosifier I dont every wanna hear u complain again about having to finish act 3 in normal without going past lvl 28. I do it on HC all the time with horrible latency. Thats half the fun and I have never died doing it, and never EVER asked for a rush. If players struggle with this they arent cutt out for pvp man.

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

LvL 28 is not a random lvl either. Piety drops lvl 28 godly items which seems like the ideal farm for normal difficulty pvp since its the end game boss. the item lvl affixes make sense for the lvl cap as do the skill gems / uniques. I take it u dont lvl 28 pvp? If u did you would understand why lvl 28 cap is so magical.

Removing lvl 28 pvp absolutely punishes players. I could understand them adding more lvl range events but to completely remove lvl 28 capped dueling is out of the question. Some make ask why do I say this? I say this because this feature, lvl 28 pvp, has been part of the game so long that players have tried to create a community around it and like chris wilson said himself, he doesnt like making items obsolete by introducing higher lvl caps and better quality weapons. Removing lvl 28 pvp would do EXACTLY that, make all the lvl 28 pvpers gear obsolete and WORTHLESS. If other pvpers want a fresh start and crack at pvp without doin lvl 28 or open merci, create a cruel difficulty pvp...its been speculated about for SO LONG.

lvl 28 pvp is integrated into pvp system, removing punishes a large player base and goes against Chris Wilson's past started morality. Chris's reasoning for not introducing near lvl cap past 100 and new weapons to the game that make others obsolete is part of the reason why I invested into this game. I spent 1k hours on diablo 3, I finished infernal act 4 before any of the nerfs. Then they made it easy to farm by lowering the difficulty, all my items took a hit. I continued farming, they added more difficulty mods and new boss modes and paragon system which continued to devalue my items, some I spent 20 mill and more on when gold was still worth like 8 bukcs a mill. This is all irrelevant for the most part other than my reason for leaving that game for PoE.


ps moosifier I dont ever wanna hear u complain again about having to finish act 3 in normal without going past lvl 28. I do it on HC all the time with horrible latency. Thats half the fun and I have never died doing it, and never EVER asked for a rush. If players struggle with this they arent cutt out for pvp man.

This wall of text says "keep it as lvl 28 because it's been there."

Sorry but the game is still beta, there hasn't been ANY PVP updates in OB. In CB 28 was the end of normal, you went there to get into a pvp match. Now it's based in act 2, the middle of the game and it's the same lvl as the crematorium, a random area in act 3. It's not adjusted for the content we have now. Keeping something the status quo because it is the status quo doesn't make sense.

The LLD community is very small right now. If there was a change it would really screw some people over but not many. I want to get into LLD, made a toon, farmed/traded for gear and I end up spending an hour in the queue before facing someone who is lvl 21 just messing around instead of going through the rest of act 2. Or I end up facing a friend 10 times in a row.

I argue it needs to either be moved lower or higher. Lower making it just act 1, no support gems. Making it a challenge of who has the higher skill because even in great gear it will be a very even playing field. Or move it higher so it make sense within the content it's contained and opens up more variety with the higher tier support gems.

Also don't try and justify the level based on where you grind to find gear either. Are you farming with your LLDer? No. Most people I talk to farm ledge.

Lastly I'm sorry I don't like to be 7 levels under the content when getting through. It's grossly ineffective for racing and in general. You can't just kill yourself to lose exp. Yes you can get through the areas but there comes a point where you need to make decisions about every kill you get because lvl 29 dings against peity and you have to reroll. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's the smartest option.

Don't bring out these hostile walls of text that boil down to "don't...because." Especially when you don't understand the context in which things were implemented.

90% of the bow builds aren't viable at lowtier PvP, because targeting opponents is very difficult..so control the area in front of you is the only viable option for bow users and there are only a few bow skills that allows you to do that: RainofArrows,PoisonArrow and maybe LMP+IceShot(only because the chill effect) but once they added multistrike these skills are no longer effective.

In my opinion GGG should introduce new specials arrow-bounce objects into the current PvP arenas so many bow skills would benefit from these and also makes duels more interesting for bow users.

Hope some of the new uniques included at release will be Bows/Quivers.

A guided-arrow would work as well no? GuideProjectile-Pierce-GMP-MultiArrow x)

I think the level cap for lld is fine as it is. raising the cap would lead to imba supporters (conc effect) and lowering it would just limit the chars too much in the passive skill tree.

The problem of overleveling you char for lld is non existent if you already got gear and keep track of the xp bar.

i would also love new pvp brackets especially one for cruel.

ok moosifier tell me what the difference between LLD and crul difficulty pvp if everyone can use ALL of the gems and 5 links become easily acquired in the new lvl range? The difference would be a couple uniques and a few more passives? Skip creul pvp because its not needed if they change lvl 28 pvp.

also u are wrong there has been pvp updates in OB, I got shield block pene nodes fixed bro.

Too settle this dispute, GGG needs to do this:


-Open a cruel pvp at lvl 50ish maybe lower.
-Add a guided single target arrow that scales physical a little bit like 125%

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

ok moosifier tell me what the difference between LLD and crul difficulty pvp if everyone can use ALL of the gems and 5 links become easily acquired in the new lvl range? The difference would be a couple uniques and a few more passives? Skip creul pvp because its not needed if they change lvl 28 pvp.

also u are wrong there has been pvp updates in OB, I got shield block pene nodes fixed bro.

Ahem, now that I'm not banned.

With that logic what's the difference between cruel and open pvp? The damage and EHP limits. While godly gear will make a difference in lower level play it won't be nearly the difference it is in open pvp. It's not like 6l full dps skills will be spammable at lower levels.

5ls aren't hard to get now either. I know of 2 lvl 28 6ls even.

My argument is lower or higher. Either remove more supports/skills or make PVP fit within the context of the difficulty you are restricted to. Hell, even if it was just lowered to 26 so it made sense to go to act 2 to queue for pvp, that would be better. 28 was a good number for CB, in the context of OB it's random and will seem even more out of place in 1.0.0 when act 3 ends at an even higher level.

Also the shield pen shit doesn't matter because you can still get 100% from tree. Why it's possible to remove all of someone's block for a smaller investment than it takes to get max block with less than perandus is beyond me.

moose, not trying to be mean man I appreciate your opinions and effort posting them, but wtf are u talking about 100 shield pene? LvL28 cannot achieve 100% shield pene. Yes I know 100% is possible at higher level, I already posted this on the thread that got it noticed, even the devs didnt know at the time 100 was possible. Anyways if u say shield pene doesnt matter in LLD you are lacking experience. they are someof the most powerful nodes. w/e happens to pvp I will be there.

I think lowering the lvl makes sense but it would take away alot of the dynamics of pvp. I do like using some supports although some like faster attacks and more melee damage might be imbalanced compared to what the other classes support gems have to offer. I do really like the idea of casters getting totems, and I think it will make summoners better. One thing I am worried about, trappers. They are already strong and if they can use the new belt in LLD it will really upset the balance. even without the belt and using magnate or a good life dual res stun belt they are tier 1.

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

moose, not trying to be mean man I appreciate your opinions and effort posting them, but wtf are u talking about 100 shield pene? LvL28 cannot achieve 100% shield pene. Yes I know 100% is possible at higher level, I already posted this on the thread that got it noticed, even the devs didnt know at the time 100 was possible. Anyways if u say shield pene doesnt matter in LLD you are lacking experience. they are someof the most powerful nodes. w/e happens to pvp I will be there.

I think lowering the lvl makes sense but it would take away alot of the dynamics of pvp. I do like using some supports although some like faster attacks and more melee damage might be imbalanced compared to what the other classes support gems have to offer. I do really like the idea of casters getting totems, and I think it will make summoners better. One thing I am worried about, trappers. They are already strong and if they can use the new belt in LLD it will really upset the balance. even without the belt and using magnate or a good life dual res stun belt they are tier 1.

I wasn't talking about the shield pen nodes only in the context of LLD, talking in general.

The belt is lvl 38/39 I think. Even if you brought LLD to the end of norm with the act 3x content I think (even though I have alpha I don't know for sure so don't quote me like I'm speaking fact) it will end around 34-35.

I'm talking from a context point of view but when OB hit Hex went on a long push to get LLD brought to 35. He had a bunch of reasons and his biggest was the CI would be possible. Hex and Apo do insane PVP testing, Apo told me the absolute max mana regen you can have at 28 yesterday. So when those guys say X is viable I usually listen. I haven't pushed Hex's argument because to be frank I didn't give a shit about LLD when OB started because there was like 3-4 people doing it.

My big thing is my roommate just started playing like a month ago. I told him I've been farming for LLD recently and he has a bunch of questions about it now. He doesn't understand why it's lvl 28. He has no idea why you have to go to act 2. He has no idea why ledge is the best place to farm. A new player literally cannot make sense of LLD atm. There are no rules about it posted anywhere, you have to ask players or dig through patch notes. These things need to be easy for anyone to understand if you want the community to actually grow.

I use to play lvl 10 duels on D2 all the time, probably my favorite thing to do after getting two toons to 99 and realizing I didn't want to do a 3rd. It was a game titled "Level 10 Dueling" and everyone just went to act 1. No hard restriction but for the most part everyone stayed in the rules or wasn't able to join in. Very simple to get started, very limited so it was mostly skill based and you knew where to go.

Our current system has none of that.

If the idea is it's a test of skill, make it so no one can use support gems, i.e. lvl 10-11 duels can't leave act 1 norm. Even in godly gear it's fairly level playing field, just balance out skills so more of them are viable.

If act 3x ends at 35 (which again, don't know for sure, just an assumption) it doesn't really add too many insane uniques, most notable would be Ephemeral Edge which I assume is why Hex says that CI would be possible.

Sounds like you'd actually prefer 26 as it takes out some of the powerful uniques and for me at least it makes sense for LLD to be contained in act 2.

Maybe I'll have hex come here and back up his claims for 35 as he knows better than I. I'm mostly about making general sense of LLD so new players can easily get in. Honestly I'd prefer it to be lvl 10-11 but I doubt that's happening now.