Resistance Penalties (and a league to test them!)

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ProtectorOfFaith wrote:

Question, will minions be affected by this resist penalty? because if so this is a HUGE! nerf to summoners..... HUGE! lol

That's what interests me as well, can we have answer please? It's not very easy to give minions resistance. I use angel kite shield, necromantic aegis and purity. If it affect minions they'll have -20 resist which won't help me at all.

20 page thread, hc league starting soon, minions/resistances issue requires answer.

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gfurm wrote:

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ProtectorOfFaith wrote:

Question, will minions be affected by this resist penalty? because if so this is a HUGE! nerf to summoners..... HUGE! lol

That's what interests me as well, can we have answer please? It's not very easy to give minions resistance. I use angel kite shield, necromantic aegis and purity. If it affect minions they'll have -20 resist which won't help me at all.

More over it will require summoners to use necromanic ageis no matter what otherwise their summons will insta die to any elemental dmg before they get close to the monster... Making summoners squishier in HC

I don't mind the spirit of the change. I can see the current state of resits being pretty irrelevant, its just how it looks like it's going to be implemented that bothers me.

The most disturbing for me out of all of this is when Chris says something like "having a set or gear to swap for certain encounters." This can be really problematic. If I could name a top 3 most annoying things about POE, trying to swap gear would definately be up there. You find a piece with better resists so you try to put it on then 'oops' you no longer have the strength required to use your gems, so you swap out another piece with some more strength then you lose some resists and you're back to square one. Just 1 big annoying cycle. Then throw in linked items with auras and reduced mana gems etc and it's enough to make someone want to throw their monitor out the window lol.

Another thing I see is when trying to run maps and map mods have -'whatever' to player resists, or like i've seen said here before Ele Weakness curse, this is going to be pretty stupid to even bother to try and max resists as it's probably not even a viable option at that point.

Also last thing. Unique items IMO are pretty bad in general because they are too build specific. Argue it all you want but for the best generic built high level characters in this game unique items are currently just a downgrade, with the excpetion of a small handful at most.

Could you possibly reset the bandits quests upon implementing this change? The bonus for siding with Kraityn could be very important, if not critical for some builds at that point.

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bingobill wrote:

20 page thread, hc league starting soon, minions/resistances issue requires answer.

dev response please

pretty nice

I would like to see "avoid burn, shock, chilled, and/or freeze" as a stat that can spawn explicitly on amulets and/or rings. That way there is more than one way to build against spellcasters - you can avoid their critical effects but potentially take more damage from them.

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Malice wrote:

I believe the following set of changes would achieve the same goals as the -75% penalty, but acheive them in a more balanced way:

1. Reduce values of all resistance bonuses by half
2. Lower resistance cap from 75% down to 50%
3. Adjust damage to compensate
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Unless I'm misunderstanding you or missing something, I think you forgot the simple/obvious fact that it makes resistance far less important to get. If you're halfing the mitigation players will have I only assume you'll be halfing all elemental damage; with weaker damage, there's not as much need to get resistances. It's also making resistances less effective, which indirectly makes resistance less desirable.

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Dashtun wrote:

i dont like this change at all, its just the lazy way of making the game more difficult,its exactly what i hate the most in every game,designers dont try to make the game hard by creating interesting content but just tweak some numbers and thats it

instead of interesting mobs,maps etc. that would require players to change the aproach to the certain boss you just took easy way to make it hard

im not against resistance penalty because i was used to it from D2 but copy/paste the same idea is just lazy

penalties are always more of an annoyance than challenge

I agree. However, at the least if they're going to add a reduction of effectiveness (or even if they don't), they should switch to a point system instead of the current direct-percentage system.

Changing to direct percentage system removes the non-linearity from the game, while adding penalties will actually make the non-linearity issue even worse.

The other reason to switch to a point system would be to make resistance less effective against higher level monsters. This way the reduction in effectiveness would be gradual and continuous, as opposed to new act 1 merciless players getting screwed in the ass while end-game merciless players are on a cake-walk.

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duolc wrote:

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dime wrote:

Regarding resistance percentages, I think the "percentage" notion needs to be dropped in favor of "resistance points" -- when you get new armor it is not measured by a percentage, because in higher level zones it is not as effective at damage reduction.

This and the suggestion to make resistances tally up like armour points is simply making resistance into exactly the same mechanic as armour is for physical damage.

To me, that is not exciting at all.

How is the current way exciting? It's just numbers.

It's also not identical to armor mechanic since armor mechanic reduces based off the input damage. It doesn't reduce based off opponent's level.

The whole reason of using the point system in the first place is so that the game can give linear gains to players. Optionally in addition, it could allow for things such as reduced effectiveness vs higher levels or reduced effectiveness vs higher damage, etc.. Without a points system, the gains characters make are exponential. Going from 70% to 80% resistance gives 3 times more damage reduction than going from 0% to 10%. You think it's fair or fun or exciting that people with low resistances get less benefit from getting resistance and that people with high resistance get really good benefit from getting resistance? I certainly don't. Non-linearity can cause big problems in balancing games properly.

Personally I think that low level players should be able to get max resistances vs low level monsters, but in both the current version of the game and the stupidly and lazily modified version of the game, low level players are not able to gain max resists easily without completely screwing other values such as health, defense, or particularly damage. By switching to a point system it will be viable regardless what level you are or what difficulty you're in to get high resistances, it will just continually need more work. With the current implementation, the improvement isn't constant; A level 85 player would certainly not need to work any more to hit/maintain 75% resistances, because he most-likely hit it quite a while ago (maybe level 55, maybe level 60, maybe level 70). However if this level 85 character was facing level 85 monsters (an impossibility right now, I know), shouldn't that player have to work to maintain good resistances?
In the same light, a lower level player in merciless, such as someone just starting, shouldn't have to all of a sudden abruptly have to strain ridiculously hard just to maintain their high resistances they may have had previously; the change should be gradual. By switching to a point-based system you can get the increased difficulty, but not cause a whole bunch of stupid problems.


The more I think about this issue the more blatantly lazy and stupid the idea sounds of doing this barbaric/archaic change of abruptly lowering resistances in higher difficulties.