Diamond Flask - actual crit chances (graph)

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sage2050 wrote:

Why would you graph this instead of chart it? presentation of data is 90% of the research.

His graph is no less informative than your chart. Probably more so, really, since it's easier to read a trend from a curve than from a set of numbers (which in your case isn't incremented evenly). Also, "change in crit chance" doesn't add a whole lot to the analysis anyway.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

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sergeantminor wrote:

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

So if I'm at 95% chance to crit, Diamonds will effectively make that 99.75%
Seems balanced.

What kind of uptime do I need with 95% chance to crit and 600% muliplier before flask?

You're not really getting much out of that. 95% and 100% aren't all that different from each other in terms of DPS, nor are 5% and 10%. There are diminishing returns on both ends of the spectrum. Your DPS should only be increasing by about 4% with the flask active. See the graph below for proof.

No, you don't understand. If I'm discharging, and I fail to crit, I need to rebuild charges.
If I only fail to crit 0.25% of the time, I'mma drop shit in that one flask use.

Your graphs mean nothing when you don't understand practical application.

95% and 99.75% (for 3.5 seconds) are pratically the same thing in practical application.

You are not permanently increasing your crit chance, you are increasing it for 3.5 seconds, and at 95% crit to chance, chances are you would crit the 6 or so discharges in that time period anyways. It pratically is a waste in practical application, as it is a redundant fail safe at best, and you have to give up potentially a magic find or granite or quicksilver which is practically a waster in practical application.

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sergeantminor wrote:

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sage2050 wrote:

Why would you graph this instead of chart it? presentation of data is 90% of the research.

His graph is no less informative than your chart. Probably more so, really, since it's easier to read a trend from a curve than from a set of numbers (which in your case isn't incremented evenly). Also, "change in crit chance" doesn't add a whole lot to the analysis anyway.

of course the information is the same, its the exact same data. like i said, presentation is everything and for something like this a chart works way better than a graph. a curve doesn't tell you anything, you'd have to line up data points to find what you were looking for, and why would you do that when you can just see the numbers?

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sergeantminor wrote:

Calm down, you don't have to be insulting. I wasn't aware of your particular practical application. That doesn't mean I don't understand practical application. The graphs are useful for people to whom damage per second actually matters (the majority of people reading this thread). For Discharge builds, DPS is pretty irrelevant. In your case, since your build depends on 100% charge uptime, I can see the benefits in using a flask. Either way, your specific build isn't an argument for whether or not the flask is "balanced.

I am calm, why do so many people on these boards think they can read tone?

You still don't get it.

Balance should always be based on the extreme cases, it's about how it can be abused, not about normal, legitimate use.

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LostForm wrote:

95% and 99.75% (for 3.5 seconds) are pratically the same thing in practical application.

You are not permanently increasing your crit chance, you are increasing it for 3.5 seconds, and at 95% crit to chance, chances are you would crit the 6 or so discharges in that time period anyways. It pratically is a waste in practical application, as it is a redundant fail safe at best, and you have to give up potentially a magic find or granite or quicksilver which is practically a waster in practical application.

An MF flask, when every cast fills my ES and mana to max? *sigh* You sure know what you're talking about buddy. As for granite and quicksilver, I have 5 flask slots, plenty of room.
If you had experienced a crit fart (failure to crit) on a boss with discharge, you would understand. You clearly haven't and don't.

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sage2050 wrote:

a curve doesn't tell you anything, you'd have to line up data points to find what you were looking for, and why would you do that when you can just see the numbers?

Most people's crit chances are going to fall somewhere in between the numbers on your chart, so they would have to interpolate anyway. And interpolation is an estimate, which is exactly what reading the graph is. And, like I said, the trend (concavity) of the distribution is much easier to see in graphical form.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

I am calm, why do so many people on these boards think they can read tone?

You still don't get it.

An MF flask, when every cast fills my ES and mana to max? *sigh* You sure know what you're talking about buddy.

If you weren't being patronizing then, you certainly are now.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

Balance should always be based on the extreme cases, it's about how it can be abused, not about normal, legitimate use.

I would hardly consider your case "extreme." It's a good use of a flask that helps to minimize one of the primary inconveniences of your build. This is not abusive, and the flask should not be rebalanced simply because it prevents 95% crit builds from "farting."

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

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sergeantminor wrote:

Calm down, you don't have to be insulting. I wasn't aware of your particular practical application. That doesn't mean I don't understand practical application. The graphs are useful for people to whom damage per second actually matters (the majority of people reading this thread). For Discharge builds, DPS is pretty irrelevant. In your case, since your build depends on 100% charge uptime, I can see the benefits in using a flask. Either way, your specific build isn't an argument for whether or not the flask is "balanced.

I am calm, why do so many people on these boards think they can read tone?

You still don't get it.

Balance should always be based on the extreme cases, it's about how it can be abused, not about normal, legitimate use.

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LostForm wrote:

95% and 99.75% (for 3.5 seconds) are pratically the same thing in practical application.

You are not permanently increasing your crit chance, you are increasing it for 3.5 seconds, and at 95% crit to chance, chances are you would crit the 6 or so discharges in that time period anyways. It pratically is a waste in practical application, as it is a redundant fail safe at best, and you have to give up potentially a magic find or granite or quicksilver which is practically a waster in practical application.

An MF flask, when every cast fills my ES and mana to max? *sigh* You sure know what you're talking about buddy. As for granite and quicksilver, I have 5 flask slots, plenty of room.
If you had experienced a crit fart (failure to crit) on a boss with discharge, you would understand. You clearly haven't and don't.

Right, cuz right now...if you fail to crit on a boss, that boss automatically kills you. (it doesnt)

You also fail to crit on every boss with 95% crit chance. (you dont)

It is math friend, so you are either the unluckiest person of all time, dont really miss a crit all that often, or dont really have 95% crit chance.

But in all those situations, going from 95% chance to cirt to 99.75% chance to crit is very redundant. Also, you are acting like critting a single boss is with discharge somehow fills up your power charges. Even on a crit against a single boss you get one power charge back.

After two crits against a single boss, you would have one endurance charge, and one power charge. Dont come in here and act like that is a huge difference from needing to cast a enduring cry or ice spear, since you would need to anyways.

If you miss a crit against a boss and a bunch of mobs, you basically need a single ice spear to get you back to full powercharges at 95% chance to crit, (probably frenzy too).

99% chance to crit can still miss crits. 99% is redundant over 95% chance.

You are lawlsy.