Crossbow Reload vs Infinite Spear Throws - A Design Mismatch That Undermines Combat Balance
" What is the risk of spear throws skills and bows in general though? I can only see the rewards " everything can be changed, there's no set in stone decision |
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" Ye. Just take a look at old promo vids where crossbow is explained. These bolts for breaking armor. Once you've broken it, you use other bolts. Or these are for freeze. When enemy is frozen, you use smth else. All along those lines. Problem is, there was obviously no consistency in development. Those who worked on warrior had no idea what what going on with spells or crossbow. Those who are working on druid perhaps have no idea what is going on with swords or traps. Everyone develops his own little game. And these are "somehow" merged later on into a big one. Last edited by Azimuthus#1135 on Apr 18, 2025, 12:01:50 PM
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" Exactly, the whole "risk vs reward" angle sounds good in theory, but when you compare actual gameplay, it doesn't hold up across all weapon types. Spear throws and bows generally don’t seem to have any significant downside, they’re fast, smooth, and spammable with little to no restrictions. So where’s the “risk” there? As for the "baked in" design philosophy, sure, maybe that was the original intent, but nothing in game design is sacred. If something isn’t fun, consistent, or balanced, it should be re-evaluated. Holding onto a flawed mechanic just because it was part of the original vision doesn’t help anyone. Games thrive when they adapt. Last edited by Twelten#1961 on Apr 18, 2025, 1:17:31 PM
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" I haven't played bow too much but with spears you have to spec into dex, which means less str to wear armor to mitigate physical damage, but the skills make you get close if you want to get charges. So you have to keep moving to avoid physical damage. You can throw spears all you want but if you want to make them strong you have to become a glass cannon. Then people start posting that white mobs kill them in one hit. With no armor, no shield. Well, duh. And of course, like I said, how these design mechanics are balanced is important. But the very fact that the entire game is designed around the str/dex/int wheel isn't going to change. You can redo skills or how defense works, but low defense will always be the tradeoff for dex. Impatience is insatiable.
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I don't have much of a problem with the reload mechanic during the campaign. I did see people saying that reload is basically non-existent at endgame though. My problem is that when you fire the crossbows it feels like it takes an eternity for the crossbow to fire. I basically could not play with this weapon without using WASD or controller. Rapid shot feels especially bad imo. You press/click and hold and it feels like it takes 5 seconds for the crossbow to start firing. Of course you only have small windows on bosses to actually fire. GG 10+ minute boring boss fights that take next to no skill and are only difficult because your skills are working against you. Click > wait > fire 2 bolts > have to dodge roll = boss -1% life.
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" ah okay, with this i can confirm, bro you need to play more, then maybe you can put your input here, no offense intended, but all this? i feel like you only just played the game recently I mean armor realy? whats armor anyway :) Last edited by Twelten#1961 on Apr 18, 2025, 1:32:26 PM
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" its like a mini stun on endgame, its still a stun :) |
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" The "risk and reward mechanic for each weapon" you described isn't really it though don't you think? There are multiple ways to get charges in the game to empower your spear skills without needing to get closer to enemies or sacrificing defenses to do that like combat frenzy and even sniper mark And i can't think of any risk and reward mechanic for bows Last edited by Vyend#2601 on Apr 18, 2025, 2:59:59 PM
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" The general drawback of dex weapons I mentioned is the lack of defense. If you have to use 30 spirit for the minimum combat frenzy that's 30 spirit you're not using for a defensive buff for evasion, armor, or energy shield. Alternatively you could use those defensive spirit skills, and get frenzy charges with up close spear/buckler skills because you can afford getting hit. In theory, that is still a drawback. In practice, unless it's well balanced, it will feel like the only alternative is to invest in ranged glass cannons (and not complain when you don't have any defense or life). Impatience is insatiable.
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Unfortunately it is not only the only think that is unfair to Crossbows. Why not having a similar item like quiver used by Bows? Crossbow and Bow are two-handed weapons both but one benefits from extra slot in gear.
And even after buffs of all Crossbows there are still classes that can do double dps with variety of weapons than with crossbow. +1 Reload time should be removed. There is not only the speed mechanism that need to be improved during battle but also the saving of passive points that are few to spend. |
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