POE2 needs to stop being more like Diablo IV and start being more like POE1.

another day another negative kraythax post talking smack about PoE2.

Dude dont you have anything better to do than lurk on the forums of a game you dont like just to moan?

you've make literaly ~450 posts in the last 2 months.

It feels to me as if PoE became too bloated and unmanageable, from this they separated PoE2 and stripped it down to bare basics and upgraded that new engine (more performance, new ‘true’ 3D etc) until they were happy with the core of the barebones.
Then they started creating content and for the campaign that was fairly easy for them as it’s a basic concept with a lot of work to redo all the models and stats etc but essentially a walk through a story. Personally (and there will be a community split on this) I think the campaign starts a little too hard and ends (act 3 not cruel, which is a whole problem in of itself but should work out when acts 4-6 arrive) at a point where enemies are too weak but hit too hard (way too easy to kill but hit like a train).
After that we get the intermission of running one map outside of the campaign or hideout which is clunky but fair enough.
The real problems start in endgame (the atlas). This feels like they were pushed to get the game out and was far from tested or properly conceived at the time EA launched. To be fair they have done a lot since then and it’s much better conceptually, but lacks ‘excitement’ of any kind.
What would be an interesting experiment would be to completely remove waystone tiers, they just drop as a base currency. The tier they open portals at would be the quest phase you are currently on, this would mean (assuming your were strong enough) you’d reach max tier just by successfully completing those quests, thereafter each waystone would automatically be tier 15 (currently) and have the rolls it dropped with or that you applied to it.
Another necessary change imo is that tier 16 waystone should be a natural ‘drop’. Of course due to above suggested change that couldn’t happen but…. As each of the citadels are compulsory tier 15 (aka the quest after doing x tier 15s) you could make beating all three citadels the unlock for tier 16 waystones. In other words your quest progress upgrades your map device and all waystones are just modifying currency to the device.
This would simplify user end progress and reduce backend processing as there would only be one waystone and no need to calculate what tier that waystone is (most by tier 15s have below tier 14 disabled by filter anyhow so that’s wasted item creation).
Besides this we need more exciting endgame. I suspect and have faith that the current lacklustre endgame will be padded out with new features (JWR specifically said he wants delve added but it’s one of the tougher old leagues to include) and activites as the EA progresses.

PoE 2 definitely need to be different than PoE 1. I stopped with PoE 1 two years ago because it was boring. Now I play PoE 2 and enjoy it so much. If you want PoE 1 go play PoE 1. The reason why both games exist together is for them being different.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Right. I am supposed to believe them after so many times they changed their mind and screwed POE1 players? First couple of times, ok. I am not so gullible anymore. Even their event is loaded with obvious testbed for POE2 stuff.

Put the tinfoil down. GGG already said why and how they ended in this situation regarding PoE1. They are not happy about it either.

And that an event they try to throw together for the community is how it is... is nothing special you need to think about. Play it and enjoy it if you want, but stop dooming about PoE1 when they only paused it.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Right. I am supposed to believe them after so many times they changed their mind and screwed POE1 players? First couple of times, ok. I am not so gullible anymore. Even their event is loaded with obvious testbed for POE2 stuff.

Put the tinfoil down. GGG already said why and how they ended in this situation regarding PoE1. They are not happy about it either.

And that an event they try to throw together for the community is how it is... is nothing special you need to think about. Play it and enjoy it if you want, but stop dooming about PoE1 when they only paused it.

Haven't you been paying attention? "Conspiracy theorists" are something like 35 wins, 0 losses since 2000. All of my pessimism is based of things they have outright said.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Haven't you been paying attention? "Conspiracy theorists" are something like 35 wins, 0 losses since 2000. All of my pessimism is based of things they have outright said.

Are these "conspiracy terrorists" in the room with you?

For real, who has said what and when?

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Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

The real problems start in endgame (the atlas). This feels like they were pushed to get the game out and was far from tested or properly conceived at the time EA launched. To be fair they have done a lot since then and it’s much better conceptually, but lacks ‘excitement’ of any kind.

Honestly, the problems start well before then. In attempting to make slower and more compelling fights, they cranked up the health and damage of monsters. It slowed things down, but they start becoming tedious.

Then they said, hey, let's make the focus more on positioning. And immediately throw the player into tight corridors, with the beefed up mobs, that have a higher move speed and can push the player. But wouldn't it be cool if you could dodge, like in Dark Souls?

In their quest to get the feel of Dark Souls, they missed that it wasn't the artificial difficulty that made that game stand out. It was the ability to use discretion and positioning to overcome.

If they stuck all the mobs in the game in rehab to deal with their upper addictions, it'd be slightly better. But rather than sitting them down with an intervention, they went down a checklist and made sure they re-implemented all of the major PoE 1 complaints in 2 while they were stripping out all the unmanageable mess.

Cluttered floors blocking you from seeing what's (probably invisible anyway) about to kill you, failing to let you know what did it, but also making it extra confusing to work out because you only see that one white mob, but it's a completely different one off screen that got you.

But... you can get lucky with a couple waystone drops when you get there, only to watch your investments fail to produce your subsequent waystones, juicing investments, or even anything else of value... because they dealt with the loot explosion by just removing quantity. Because nothing makes loot more impactful than just giving you a handful less of the garbage.

Honestly, the issue isn't that it's trying to do things different from PoE 1. It's that it implemented all the problems, and half-baked systems from other games.

The campaign is much better than the old one... but that doesn't really matter a whole lot when a lot of the rest of the game feels like crap.

I'm gonna be honest. I'd rather go back to reflect mobs or grinding docks for a year than keep going how PoE 2 is right now. Overcoming anything in PoE 2 feels much less like an accomplishment than winning a slot machine after becoming a degenerate gambler.

I don't know. OP has some fair feedback, but I don't really think that PoE2 is being made for Diablo IV players: At least, not the current ones.

Diablo IV is a different beast than it was at release and I don't think that GGG would want to emulate what it became per se. Vanilla Diablo IV gameplay was usually slower, lacked build diversity, and the itemization was just extremely bad.

Now, the itemization in Diablo IV is still bad, with most items and uniques being overly tailored towards one skill/build, and build diversity is still crap, but it's all about very fast paced builds with map clearing skills with an ever increasing powercreep. Players want to keep their clearing speed, and would much prefer if Blizzard buffed every skill to supernova levels of destruction than to nerf their overpowered build so that it can "be" like the rest.

Also, a vocal proportion of the current Diablo IV playerbase absolutely hate any kind of challenge and just want to kill hordes of monsters easily: A lot of those who tried PoE2 considered it to be too hard, so I don't think they'll come back unless there is some "Easy" difficulty setting (which Blizzard named "Normal" in Diablo IV so that no one would feel inadequate by playing at the easiest difficulty).

I really hope that GGG stand their ground and keep the difficulty as is: Maybe give players more tools (better crafting, for example), and more viable recommended skills/support choices, but nothing else. Our first playthrough is not supposed to be a walk in the park, and to me, PoE2 (prior to the current "endgame" at least) really hit the spot.

Anyway, I really hope PoE1 can co-exist with PoE2, and that both can keep working on what their playerbase like about them, but that's probably wishful thinking.

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chipninja#4276 wrote:

Overcoming anything in PoE 2 feels much less like an accomplishment than winning a slot machine after becoming a degenerate gambler.

That puts it very eloquently.