This is the problem with Waystone Sustain

Corrupted Tier 15 Map. Every Chest opened. Every enemy killed. (11% increased quality of items dropped, 117% increased rarity of items dropped, 277% increased waystones dropped)


All notable loot and maps found. T5, T6, T6, T6, T9, T11.


Increased Item Rarity on Gear: 39%

All Atlas Map Passives.



Maps that dropped are T5-T11. It's insulting honestly. I don't recall POE1 having this issue with map sustain without any of these bonuses to make the maps more likely to drop. This sort of outcome in a map shouldn't happen even if it's an unmodified map with no atlas nodes.

Yeah, higher level maps being gated behind RNG drops is a deranged system to put it simply.

I have a related post talking about how area levels don't even need to be attached to the waystones themselves:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3710113

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Velexia#1591 wrote:

Corrupted Tier 15 Map. Every Chest opened. Every enemy killed. (11% increased quality of items dropped, 117% increased rarity of items dropped, 277% increased waystones dropped)


All notable loot and maps found. T5, T6, T6, T6, T9, T9.


Increased Item Rarity on Gear: 39%

All Atlas Map Passives.



Maps that dropped are T5-T9. It's insulting honestly. I don't recall POE1 having this issue with map sustain without any of these bonuses to make the maps more likely to drop. This sort of outcome in a map shouldn't happen even if it's an unmodified map with no atlas nodes.

You have bad luck. Im casual gamer and i have 4 full stash tabs of T15. Literaly every map gives me 0-8 T 15 maps (4 on avarage). Now i alch them and drop bad rolls on the ground as i dont have more space in stash.
Sustain is so good that i can run only +inc Quantity/Rarity maps without buying them.

Once you get into T15s, you get too many waystones. I end up only keeping rarity maps and corrupt my others to chance a T16 (have around 80 T16s) and then I literally delete the rest of my T15s.

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LuciferFearsomeP#0586 wrote:

You have bad luck. Im casual gamer and i have 4 full stash tabs of T15. Literaly every map gives me 0-8 T 15 maps (4 on avarage). Now i alch them and drop bad rolls on the ground as i dont have more space in stash.
Sustain is so good that i can run only +inc Quantity/Rarity maps without buying them.

It most likely isn't bad luck. By now, many of us have run enough maps that, statistically speaking, there shouldn't be many people who are having a problem with sustain if it was a bad luck issue. It's a problem with the drop rates.

There's probably some factor at play, like the type of tablets you get or if you do enough boss nodes, if you vaal orb, that sort of thing. The type of thing that could potentially be figured out from a big enough sample size of how players play to determine who does and doesn't have lots of maps, and what the difference is in their play style. For example, one thing that would probably easily stand out is that players who kill bosses more frequently/successfully have more maps, especially if they have points in the boss tree. But there are probably other similar factors.

Now, me, personally, I think sustain is still bad, and, really, it shouldn't even be something that anyone needs to mention. One shouldn't have to play in a certain way just to have access to the end game at their level. Especially since a basic map clear (kill the elites) is generally not hard to pull off. So the how you play, how you spec, type of things should determine how successful you are in running maps efficiently, in the rewards per hour, and the like. But it shouldn't dictate if you can run maps appropriate for your level at all. Instead, that should dictate your ability to juice up the maps.

Short of it, white maps should be readily available, but the ability to juice maps shouldn't.

And that said, short term, waystone drop rates should be chopped down to 1/3rd or 1/2 of what they currently are... but they should be level appropriate to the map you are running. Enough of this "here's a level 6 waystone, and another one, and, oh, a level 4 one" while doing a T15 map. It's just pointless clutter, the type of poor design that is why people need loot filters.

277% is very low chance. My maps usually have 700%+

I don't think chance for higher tier is worth it when doing t15's.

Rising Danger, Deadly Evolution, %increased effect of explicit modifiers should help a lot more with loot, also increased tablet effects. Also get radiant waystones in boss tree. Boss always drops at least 1 same tier map, with that keystone they usually drop 3+.

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LuciferFearsomeP#0586 wrote:

You have bad luck. Im casual gamer and i have 4 full stash tabs of T15. Literaly every map gives me 0-8 T 15 maps (4 on avarage). Now i alch them and drop bad rolls on the ground as i dont have more space in stash.
Sustain is so good that i can run only +inc Quantity/Rarity maps without buying them.

Luck shouldn't be a factor when it comes to being able to play the game.

The fact that lower tier maps are even dropping is utterly pointless.

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Tumulten#3988 wrote:

277% is very low chance. My maps usually have 700%+

I don't think chance for higher tier is worth it when doing t15's.

Rising Danger, Deadly Evolution, %increased effect of explicit modifiers should help a lot more with loot, also increased tablet effects. Also get radiant waystones in boss tree. Boss always drops at least 1 same tier map, with that keystone they usually drop 3+.

And this post serves to highlight exactly why the current design is bad.

If you have to play a certain way, then why are the others ways an option? The design has failed. If players have to go do research outside of the game so they know the right choice to make within the game, just so they can sustain, your design has failed. If 277% is a very low chance, even with the penalties that come with it, then why isn't the base 100% chance much higher? Again, the design is a failure.

GGG is too obsessed with punishing players, when they need to apply more carrot instead. Let people have their white waystones. Make them earn the upgraded versions that are harder, but more rewarding. Don't reward us with more waystone drops just so we can even play the game, but instead, up the cost of upgrading waystone quality, and reward us with higher quality waystone drops, rather than quantity.

That way, the casual can happily run low difficulty maps appropriate for their level, and the power gamers can run crazy cranked up versions where the entire screen ends up covered in item names (okay, that's another too much quantity issue, but one thing for GGG to tackle at a time).

It should not be a question of if you can run a map your level or not. It should be a question of "How good of one can you run?"

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Axterix13#5693 wrote:

And this post serves to highlight exactly why the current design is bad.

No, this is a good design, more risk more reward is how it should be.
And you don't need all of that just to sustain, bosses are enough.

And we are talking about T15's here, those are supposed to require more risk.

i agree its bad design but let me tell you that the +waystone drop chance nodes are useless spec out of them asap