Map sustain

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LeFearMe#3936 wrote:

At T12 you have a weird situation in which map sustain feels broken. I was there too. Now I have 3 rows of T15 and a row of T16 maps in my stash.

What to do?

1. Loot all maps and try to craft them higher using the reforging bench.
2. Run Bosses
3. Use Precursor Tablets to irradiate maps, or add bosses
4. Rare Maps are enough. Use Alchemy orbs for a time. Use Vaal if your Build can handle most suffixes on Maps.
5. Don't die.
6. Run Bosses (for real. They are the key)
7. Try and get a 79+ boss kill to gain 2 or 4 skill points to boost boss Drop rates.

And honestly? Just keep it up. It's RNG. You may be very unlucky right now. And tomorrow you will find 4 T12 Maps in a T11 with +0% Waystone drop rate. Just buying a bunch of T15 is also an option. They have little to no value to most players that reached endgame and have map sustain.

Rarity btw does not have any impact on Waystone Drop rate.

If you die a lot, then that's the problem. "A lot" means once every 7 maps.

I appreciate it, thanks a lot everyone for the help.

I think my main mistake was to use my current tier waystones for no-mod nodes between towers + towers as well, instead of using lower tier waystones for those.

I am now using lower tier waystones for tower rush + towers, and saving my current tier waystones for boss and/or irradiated + corrupted nodes, and am doing better.

I was already Regaling, but Exalting + Vaaling + Instilling those waystones for boss maps also helped.

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

I would love to give you more of the validation you're looking for, but I'm busy figuring out how to solve my issue ^^
Any ideas?

I'm sorry, your posts were not phrased as questions/problems so I didn't realise you were looking for solutions. They were just rants relating your experience, so I posted my experience (which is the same as all of my friendsgroup who used my atlas strat when they reached maps).

Wall of text incoming:

The atlas passive tree in PoE2 is extremely punishing, in the sense that if you don't pick the correct nodes at the correct times, you'll basically be unable to progress or sustain. I'll give you my strat and hopefully it will help. It worked for all of us. Idk if it's the best and I don't care, I just know that it works. You mentioned you're at t12, so I'll skip the really early stuff and jump to what I was doing for red maps.

Atlas Tree:
You want to have as much quant and rarity as you can (edit 2: Rarity helps drop rare maps and save you currency). Constant Crossroads, Lucky Pillage, Fortunate Path. You also want Unstable Energies and Grueling Journey, because increased effect of Waystone modifiers directly increases Waystone droprate. The High Road is nice for chance for +1 tier, and Deadly Evolution makes Rares (and Bosses) stronger which increases their drops.
You're aiming to have as many Waystones drop from rares as possible, because Rares have +1 to the ilvl of items they can drop compared to the zone they're in, meaning you'll be more likely to see your t13s from them when running t12s. This is why it's usually better to be running Rising Danger and Twin Threats early on compared to Precursor juicing. You want your waystones to drop at a higher level. Try to run them in Irradiated zones as well so you can grab another free +1.

Then once I was at t15s I removed Rising Danger and Twin Threats for Teeming Horde, Precursor Influence and Enigmatic Intensification. This makes you drop more waystones overall if you're juicing them sufficiently (multiple tablets, rare corrupted waystones with many mods and high drop chance) but takes more points to do (so you can't really do it efficiently earlier than this, plus you probably don't have the pool and currency to do it).
It may be possible to run this from earlier on if you have the currency, but in the beginning I barely had enough currency to roll maps personally because I was rushing to t15s. It won't work without well rolled maps and waystones, it scales off of the rolls, and you need a good build to do the juiced maps.

This is basically the only way I know of. I assume the rest of the nodes only exist so that they can be used once you have hundreds of maps, because stuff like extra magic monsters is worthless for sustain.

Again, there may be other ways to do this. This strat was smooth for me though. I always had enough maps of a higher tier to do the next quest (with maybe 1-2 to spare) and then once I was on 15s I was dropping many of them through boss nodes.

Edit: I see you posted your Atlas Tree while I was typing. I consider this wrong, the topside is doing jack shit and you skipped both the important keystones.

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PrimordialDarkness#3913 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

I would love to give you more of the validation you're looking for, but I'm busy figuring out how to solve my issue ^^
Any ideas?

I'm sorry, your posts were not phrased as questions/problems so I didn't realise you were looking for solutions. They were just rants relating your experience, so I posted my experience (which is the same as all of my friendsgroup who used my atlas strat when they reached maps).

Wall of text incoming:

The atlas passive tree in PoE2 is extremely punishing, in the sense that if you don't pick the correct nodes at the correct times, you'll basically be unable to progress or sustain. I'll give you my strat and hopefully it will help. It worked for all of us. Idk if it's the best and I don't care, I just know that it works. You mentioned you're at t12, so I'll skip the really early stuff and jump to what I was doing for red maps.

Atlas Tree:
You want to have as much quant and rarity as you can. Constant Crossroads, Lucky Pillage, Fortunate Path. You also want Unstable Energies and Grueling Journey, because increased effect of Waystone modifiers directly increases Waystone droprate. The High Road is nice for chance for +1 tier, and Deadly Evolution makes Rares (and Bosses) stronger which increases their drops.
You're aiming to have as many Waystones drop from rares as possible, because Rares have +1 to the ilvl of items they can drop compared to the zone they're in, meaning you'll be more likely to see your t13s from them when running t12s. This is why it's usually better to be running Rising Danger and Twin Threats early on compared to Precursor juicing. You want your waystones to drop at a higher level. Try to run them in Irradiated zones as well so you can grab another free +1.

Then once I was at t15s I removed Rising Danger and Twin Threats for Teeming Horde, Precursor Influence and Enigmatic Intensification. This makes you drop more waystones overall if you're juicing them sufficiently (multiple tablets, rare corrupted waystones with many mods and high drop chance) but takes more points to do (so you can't really do it efficiently earlier than this, plus you probably don't have the pool and currency to do it).
It may be possible to run this from earlier on if you have the currency, but in the beginning I barely had enough currency to roll maps personally because I was rushing to t15s. It won't work without well rolled maps and waystones, it scales off of the rolls, and you need a good build to do the juiced maps.

This is basically the only way I know of. I assume the rest of the nodes only exist so that they can be used once you have hundreds of maps, because stuff like extra magic monsters is worthless for sustain.

Again, there may be other ways to do this. This strat was smooth for me though. I always had enough maps of a higher tier to do the next quest (with maybe 1-2 to spare) and then once I was on 15s I was dropping many of them through boss nodes.

Edit: I see you posted your Atlas Tree while I was typing. I consider this wrong, the topside is doing jack shit and you skipped both the important keystones.

Wow, I did not expect a detailed response like this, I genuinely appreciate it, thanks a lot!
I will modify my Atlas tree to match yours.

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

Wow, I did not expect a detailed response like this, I genuinely appreciate it, thanks a lot!
I will modify my Atlas tree to match yours.

You're welcome!

Honestly, idk how well it will work if you swap to it midway. Hopefully it will still work. My pool of maps, tablets, and currency was always barely sufficient to progress. Also, at the time, there was basically no gear on the market, my character was weak as shit, and I couldn't run precursor juice even if I wanted to.

Remember to grab any maps that drop that are close to the tier you're at. Like, grabbing one t10 may not seem like much, but if you grabbed say, the three t10s and two t11s that dropped, then you get an extra t12 that never dropped.

Even at t15, I still grab t13+ waystones and reforge them.

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PrimordialDarkness#3913 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

Wow, I did not expect a detailed response like this, I genuinely appreciate it, thanks a lot!
I will modify my Atlas tree to match yours.

You're welcome!

Honestly, idk how well it will work if you swap to it midway. Hopefully it will still work. My pool of maps, tablets, and currency was always barely sufficient to progress. Also, at the time, there was basically no gear on the market, my character was weak as shit, and I couldn't run precursor juice even if I wanted to.

Remember to grab any maps that drop that are close to the tier you're at. Like, grabbing one t10 may not seem like much, but if you grabbed say, the three t10s and two t11s that dropped, then you get an extra t12 that never dropped.

Even at t15, I still grab t13+ waystones and reforge them.

Is that the order you'd recommend, btw?
Constant Crossroads > Lucky Pillage > Fortunate Path > Unstable Energies > Grueling Journey > The High Road > Deadly Evolution > Rising Danger > Twin Threats

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

Is that the order you'd recommend, btw?
Constant Crossroads > Lucky Pillage > Fortunate Path > Unstable Energies > Grueling Journey > The High Road > Deadly Evolution > Rising Danger > Twin Threats

I wasn't actually typing them in order, just looking at the tree and thinking about what I did.

I rushed Unstable Energies actually. So:

Constant Crossroads > Lucky Pillage > Unstable Energies > Fortunate Path > The High Road > Grueling Journey > Deadly Evolution > Rising Danger > Twin Threats.