Designing an Endgame for Diverse Play Speed Preferences

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hboi#6131 wrote:

If a boss attack is well telegraphed and has a long build up and it one shots you I think that's fair. They gave you plenty of time to dodge the attack and you screwed up and died.

I don't understand why people think one shots should never be allowed.

People like exchanges, back and forth to take abit of risk and react. And people have varying opinions on what a well telegraphed attack should be. A boss can have an obnoxiously drawn out wind-up that feels unnatural and baits players into dodge prematurally that can feel cheap.

POE2 adds to the problem more since they've made death have a serious penalty which makes one-shots feel even worse.

And there's the age-old problem if people playing entirely different games as the OP starts with.

For Mr.Slow being able to gradually go around and simply not die is good enough. For Mr.Fast if they're not blowing up 50 mobs a second their build must be wrong.

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maquino85#7657 wrote:

Imagine a world in which a game for Mr fast already existed and then the company that made that game came out and said they were going to make a game for Mr slow and everyone rejoiced, but abruptly half way thru the campaign the game suddenly turned into the same game as the first one. And imagine if people complained and said this doesn’t make sense, why is the game for Mr. Slow only the first half of the campaign and then this becomes the same as your old game to that company and they said it was intentional and by design. Would that make any sense at all? Would you believe it if I said that’s the world we’re living in, those games are PoE and PoE2, and that company is GGG?

I'm glad you said we had to imagine this, because that is clearly what you are doing.

I don't know where people are getting this from other than the Mandela effect.

They clearly stated, in almost every interview they've done, that in the endgame the game would get faster and more zoomy. They've never, ever said that the endgame would be slow. This is a figment of your imagination.

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bewilder2#0356 wrote:

Less about fighting against 500 mobs in a 2km radius map with aim everywhere skills, more about fighting 10-20-30 mobs that test your mettle in a controlled environment.

I don't want a slower game, I want the game to be much more meaningful

Could you carefully describe how this is different to the Mr Slow content I was describing? Is the moniker "Mr Slow" getting in the way of seeing that I meant what you described? The player tailoring their endgame to have fewer mobs demanding greater player skill instead of just having bigger numbers.

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Drakes#3328 wrote:

And there's the age-old problem if people playing entirely different games as the OP starts with.

For Mr.Slow being able to gradually go around and simply not die is good enough. For Mr.Fast if they're not blowing up 50 mobs a second their build must be wrong.

For Mr Slow content to give wealth at a similar rate of Mr Fast, "simply not die" would have to be more difficult. And in a way where "just DPS it faster" isn't viable. What design would create such content? That's what I'm trying to gather ideas on.

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MichaelKnightro#5797 wrote:

I'm glad you said we had to imagine this, because that is clearly what you are doing.

I don't know where people are getting this from other than the Mandela effect.

Fact or fiction, justified or not, it was their expectations going in. They have the right to express what they thought at the time. I'm a lot more bothered that they didn't say anything productive. All they did was focus on the problem and the past. There's other threads to do that, I'd like this one to be forward thinking: where do we want to go?

I think the progression is also very important.

If you still move like a level 1 and hit like a level 1, you will get the feeling that you not progressed at all.

RPGs have all 1 thing in common, its the journey from the peasant to the king.

The game started slow and is now much faster, natural evolution if you stack stats over time.

Games like Dark Souls are also way slower in the beginning, but with better gear and stuff your movement speed like your run speed not get faster, but your enemy clear time is.

Other wise what is the point of gear or low drop rated items.

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Phorsix#8434 wrote:

I think the progression is also very important.

If you still move like a level 1 and hit like a level 1, you will get the feeling that you not progressed at all.

RPGs have all 1 thing in common, its the journey from the peasant to the king.

The game started slow and is now much faster, natural evolution if you stack stats over time.

Games like Dark Souls are also way slower in the beginning, but with better gear and stuff your movement speed like your run speed not get faster, but your enemy clear time is.

Other wise what is the point of gear or low drop rated items.

Good point, and to that I say: progression can be conveyed in other ways than just clear time. Or more specifically, you don't have to be destroying whole screens at once to feel you've grown from your Lv 1 days.

"When I was a peasant, I was beating up slow zombies with a stick. Now I am fighting hulks who are possessed by demons that throw boss-grade attacks and that's just while walking to the real boss fight."

If you have PoE 1 experience, seeing a white trash mob named "Forgotten Emperor" is a pretty huge feeling of progression. Now imagine a pantheon-touched, yellow mob of that in an infinite-duration delirium. One target, 6 or so dangerous attacks (that oneshot you if you've juiced the content for more wealth) and possibly defensive mechanics so a zoomy map exploder can't trivially kill them before they do anything.

Overall +1.

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Schverika#2698 wrote:

So to clarify, by "bosses" do you mean regular bosses at the end of ordinary maps? Or exclusively the big bosses where you need to farm to get a ticket to even attempt the fight?

I'm also trying to get a bead on Mr Slow's feelings about filler monsters. Does Mr Slow not mind if white monsters die fast so long as there's beefy yellow monsters or PoE 1's wildwood touch buffed tanky monsters?

I think both should be more like in act 1, but i think yellow monsters/bosses are more important. Ideally even mobs should pose a challenge.