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If I had 5 points for every character that has been bricked after being sent to standard I'd have 350 points. It goes with updating the game.
IGN : Reamus
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Posted byAndromansis#4714on Dec 17, 2024, 1:35:51 AM
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The Titan Tim#8259 wrote:
Hey just want to chime in here and provide some feedback regarding the future of the game, as I’m quite happy with where it’s at currently…
As someone who has been playing ARPGs since Gauntlet, I have noticed a rather disturbing trend as of late where Seasonal content is released and accessible only on newly created characters at the behest of hyper-competitive leaderboard pushing, something that perhaps not even 1% of the playerbase is remotely interested in.
Assuming I was crazy to not like this system, I took to my rather diverse group of friends and began surveying.
At the end of each survey, the final question was always, " What about RPGs do you enjoy the most?"
Overwhelmingly, the responses I received were as follows…
"I like creating my own character."
"That feeling of progressing…"
"Having an impact on the world."
Within my (albeit limited) survey pool, I learned that people care most about owning their character, about being a part of their world, and progressing through adversity. ALL of those things are thrown aside every time you are told to no longer use your character that you’ve grown with, in order to make a new character to experience new content, in seasonal ARPGs. Now I’m no marketing expert, but it goes without saying, that when people are detached from their characters, they feel less incentivized to purchase cosmetics for them, and are less likely to get into or even try a game… knowing they will need to restart their progress every three months.
What I would like to see, would be a focus on End-Game activities and quality of live improvements to expand our game for seasonal mechanics, and an entirely separate "ironman" setting for leaderboard pushing so those who enjoy that, can, each update.
You are going too deep bro. We need seasons to keep the game fresh. Simple as that. You want to play an MMORPG not an ARPG if you want your character to "progress forever" while you chill.
Starting a season is not "ironman" it is a lot easier to buy the gear and keeps the game working because of the economy reset. Everything was 1ex at the start of poe2. Then the good items were 45ex. Now the good items are 100ex. You can see this being a problem for people starting out essentially SSF in a world where no-one cares about 1ex trades.
You're asking GGG to turn PoE, an ARPG, into an MMORPG essentially. The idea doesn't work at all.
Last edited by AverBeg7#1689 on Dec 17, 2024, 1:40:32 AM
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Posted byAverBeg7#1689on Dec 17, 2024, 1:37:46 AM
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reading thru i really feel sad that some forummers choose to reply to you in a toxic manner.
shame on them.
its ok to have different opinions but its not ok to insult or condescend.
people have mentioned "POE1, D4, LE" does seasonal content.
but i want to point out LE does something different. in their temp league, its the same as others. start fresh. complete challenges etc.
but for their "standard"/permanent league, they get too experience the league content too!
like how the fucking awesome is that? you dont need to reroll, you dont need to waste time. and its exactly like how you said it. if i m attached to my character and gear/wealth, starting from scratch is something I DONT WANT to do.
LE solves this so beautifully. the caveat is the end game league content such as league specific bosses are LOCKED behind temp league progress. if players in the temp league have not killed the boss in the temp league, access to the boss is restricted in standard league. in other words until ANYONE playing on the temp league kills the temp league boss, standard league players have NO ACCESS to this boss. but once a temp leaguer has accomplished this, standard players can now enjoy the league content fully on standard.
i've suggested this a few times and i really hope GGG picks up this suggestion. coz i really DONT FUCKING WANT TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER WITH NO GEAR/GOLD/STASH.
i did that for POE1 many leagues and i do that if and only if i see gear that i can get from the temp league that could make me stronger in POE1. and i can tell you. i HATED the experience. FUCKING HATED it. temp leagues is not my thing but if it means bringing a powerful piece of gear back to standard i "might" force myself to play it.
but after doing that for 10 years. FUCK temp leagues.
Thanks, glad to see someone with a level head on their shoulders!
People get too comfortable with what has been, and are terrified of change even when it’s nothing short of what we need. This seasonal design of resetting players, has been nothing but a plague on ARPGs, causing each game since to rapidly drop in numbers Season One. Most players will play Pre-Season on Launch, and get to end-game right as Season One is dropping… see that they cannot carry their character over and inevitably make a new one to earn the new cosmetics, play a week, then put the game down for three months or indefinitely.
I’ve seen this countless times. We all have, I don’t know why we’re pretending this isn’t a problem.
Last edited by Theist#4648 on Dec 17, 2024, 2:48:52 AM
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Posted byTheist#4648on Dec 17, 2024, 2:38:08 AM
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Seasons are an aRPG staple, and the reset is a big part of it.
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Posted byMrH#0517on Dec 17, 2024, 2:42:53 AM
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The Titan Tim#8259 wrote:
Thanks for the replies, not quite a fan of the presumptions and negativity but I’ll humor it nevertheless.
It is extremely disingenuous to claim that hundreds of thousands of fans tune in to watch Hardcore runs, as peak day one spikes simmer to an average of ~20,000 viewers through the month. Your average player couldn’t care less. Building a game for the .01% will result in a game played by the .01% and as an investor in PoE 2, I would like to see them avoid this fundamental failure in player understanding.
https://twitchtracker.com/games/29307
There were 3,325 average viewers October 2024, and 1,042 November 2024, right before Path of Exile 2 was about to hit early access. People completely lost interest in Path of Exile 1, as they do with all ARPGs and their lack of a working Live Service model that respects RP of ARPGs.
All of that said, I have nothing against people who respect World’s First for patches or look forward to watching their buddies stream Hardcore runs, with Ironman day 1 patch runs, those competitions would still exist. What I’m asking for is equal support for players that don’t want to start over every few months, not to remove seasons altogether; just rework the way they are implemented to accommodate EVERYONE, or more importantly, the majority that are being left out.
Could you explain to me please what twitch viewer numbers (especially hc viewer numbers) have to do with anything?
Not trying to be snarky i just really cant understand it.
Seasonal content is usually tested out in the seasons league first and if it works well implemented into the game (at least thats how it worked in poe and i dont see any reason why they would change that).
So you do get new content in standard as well you just might have to wait a little longer.
Also if you look at player number instead of twitch viewers you would notice poe has a lot of returning players every new season and actually new players as well.
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Posted byjersch_#2179on Dec 17, 2024, 2:51:20 AM
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The Titan Tim#8259 wrote:
Thanks for the replies, not quite a fan of the presumptions and negativity but I’ll humor it nevertheless.
It is extremely disingenuous to claim that hundreds of thousands of fans tune in to watch Hardcore runs, as peak day one spikes simmer to an average of ~20,000 viewers through the month. Your average player couldn’t care less. Building a game for the .01% will result in a game played by the .01% and as an investor in PoE 2, I would like to see them avoid this fundamental failure in player understanding.
https://twitchtracker.com/games/29307
There were 3,325 average viewers October 2024, and 1,042 November 2024, right before Path of Exile 2 was about to hit early access. People completely lost interest in Path of Exile 1, as they do with all ARPGs and their lack of a working Live Service model that respects RP of ARPGs.
All of that said, I have nothing against people who respect World’s First for patches or look forward to watching their buddies stream Hardcore runs, with Ironman day 1 patch runs, those competitions would still exist. What I’m asking for is equal support for players that don’t want to start over every few months, not to remove seasons altogether; just rework the way they are implemented to accommodate EVERYONE, or more importantly, the majority that are being left out.
reading thru i really feel sad that some forummers choose to reply to you in a toxic manner.
shame on them.
its ok to have different opinions but its not ok to insult or condescend.
people have mentioned "POE1, D4, LE" does seasonal content.
but i want to point out LE does something different. in their temp league, its the same as others. start fresh. complete challenges etc.
but for their "standard"/permanent league, they get too experience the league content too!
like how the fucking awesome is that? you dont need to reroll, you dont need to waste time. and its exactly like how you said it. if i m attached to my character and gear/wealth, starting from scratch is something I DONT WANT to do.
LE solves this so beautifully. the caveat is the end game league content such as league specific bosses are LOCKED behind temp league progress. if players in the temp league have not killed the boss in the temp league, access to the boss is restricted in standard league. in other words until ANYONE playing on the temp league kills the temp league boss, standard league players have NO ACCESS to this boss. but once a temp leaguer has accomplished this, standard players can now enjoy the league content fully on standard.
i've suggested this a few times and i really hope GGG picks up this suggestion. coz i really DONT FUCKING WANT TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER WITH NO GEAR/GOLD/STASH.
i did that for POE1 many leagues and i do that if and only if i see gear that i can get from the temp league that could make me stronger in POE1. and i can tell you. i HATED the experience. FUCKING HATED it. temp leagues is not my thing but if it means bringing a powerful piece of gear back to standard i "might" force myself to play it.
but after doing that for 10 years. FUCK temp leagues.
I've been playing PoE1 since the very beginning, and I kind of agree with this. There’s no good reason not to implement the new league in Standard as well. I think plenty of players would still enjoy the fresh economy and the excitement of starting a new character in a fresh league. At the same time, those who prefer to stick with their existing characters should have that option in Standard.
While I have the time to play a new character every season, I can understand that others with families and full-time jobs might struggle to do the same. It would be great that they can also enjoy the new content without having to start all over.
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Posted byAceNightfire#0980on Dec 17, 2024, 2:59:16 AM
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At least in POE1, the greatest hits of the seasonal content make it into the permanent league. I play and then stop playing for a few months, then play again, and there's always new content, new items, and a slightly different passive tree. All my characters are forever characters (Standard SSF). The game is designed for people to take breaks, play other games, and come back to this one. Works for me.
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This is not an MMO that takes years to accomplish everything on your character. Veteran POE players finish the content in the game within weeks. League resets are necessary to maintain the attention of the core playerbase. Starting fresh along with everyone else and trying a new build is fun. Playing the same character for years in a game like this would quickly run out of ways to progress and get boring.
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Posted byKirana#3430on Dec 17, 2024, 3:05:00 AM
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The Titan Tim#8259 wrote:
Thanks, glad to see someone with a level head on their shoulders!
People get too comfortable with what has been, and are terrified of change even when it’s nothing short of what we need. This seasonal design of resetting players, has been nothing but a plague on ARPGs, causing each game since to rapidly drop in numbers Season One. Most players will play Pre-Season on Launch, and get to end-game right as Season One is dropping… see that they cannot carry their character over and inevitably make a new one to earn the new cosmetics, play a week, then put the game down for three months or indefinitely.
I’ve seen this countless times. We all have, I don’t know why we’re pretending this isn’t a problem.
the reason why theres a huge pushback against LE's implementation of leagues is that the community will be split.
Currently 100% players who want gear from temp league MUST play temp league. So economy operates at full capacity.
We don't know how many players would actually remain playing in temp league IF we could play it on standard but IF 30%-40% just decided to remain in standard, temp league economy would be impacted.
all this talk about "thats how its always been" are just temp leaguers wanting the game to be shittier for players who dont give a damn about temp leagues.
theyre actually worried that the economy of temp leagues are going to shit.
they dont want standard players to enjoy temp league content as is. they want us to suffer and rebuild our wealth and progress.
its weird, isnt rebuilding wealth and progress what temp leaguers like? temp leaguers still have this option. the economy will be different in temp leaguers too.
all this talk of "its always been like that", is correct but we've always had to use socket gems on gear but now no longer. LE no longer uses this archaic "league" mechanic. in fact PATH2 OWES a great deal to LE's innovations. GGG "borrowed" a lot of LE's mechanics and learnings.
edit: want to add, any talk of "resets being necessary". sure, thats exactly what temp leagues are for. they can still exist. they are there for people who care for such things.
adding temp league content to standard should be there for people who dont care for it.
[Removed by Support] Last edited by exsea#1724 on Dec 17, 2024, 3:09:51 AM
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Posted byexsea#1724on Dec 17, 2024, 3:07:44 AM
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I see a lot of people going basically it's the way it is because that was how it has been, but I'm not sure that can cut it. The structure of POE 2 is a lot closer to a more traditional action RPG especially in regard to campaign length, time required to acquire ideal gear, max level, and boss difficulty.
I think if they are going to continue with the seasons they will have to really take a hard look at how they space it out and implement it because if it follows the same time frame and parameters as I can imagine people rapidly burning out.
Repetition is a lot more attractive when you can do it quickly, but I don't see it having appeal if it's like a 20+ hour campaign you need to try and speedrun every time.
My early access feedback: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3639607
My Witch early access feedback: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3632153 Last edited by Morghus#4174 on Dec 17, 2024, 3:08:37 AM
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Posted byMorghus#4174on Dec 17, 2024, 3:07:57 AM
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