Party-Scaling is broken

The mechanic seems to be broken - im not sure what the exact thing is it uses to scale but its pretty bad sometimes:

Act 1 Boss with a full party:
-- he was almost invincible - did lots of attacks and hardly took damage
-- we attacked him for a long time and the healthbar just very slowly went down
-- due to the long duration at some point we just made mistakes and lost
-- tried multiple times with multiple ppl
-- another issue was reviving - for some reason at some point in the fight there was never an opening long enough even when 2 ppl tried to rezz someone

So i thought - okay that Boss is tough i probably have to gear up and level more - so i did the Boss area again but alone to get some items and t hought hey why not try it alone.

Guess what - the boss was way easier. I actually did a lot of damge, he didnt do as much to me and i got him first try. - im lvl 18 btw.


There definitely is something wrong with group level scaling. Is it just scaling according to the playernumbers ignoring ppl with bad gerar/skills or their levels?

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

The mechanic seems to be broken - im not sure what the exact thing is it uses to scale but its pretty bad sometimes:

I'm pretty sure it's functioning as intended.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

There definitely is something wrong with group level scaling. Is it just scaling according to the playernumbers ignoring ppl with bad gerar/skills or their levels?

It's most likely exactly the same (or with slightly tweaked values) as PoE's party scaling. Enemy damage/hp scaled by number of players present in a given zone.

To be clear -- I agree, it's probably not good that it works this way. But broken? No, I would chalk this up to bad (but very deliberate) design decision.

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ReggShanks#0071 wrote:

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

The mechanic seems to be broken - im not sure what the exact thing is it uses to scale but its pretty bad sometimes:

I'm pretty sure it's functioning as intended.

"

_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

There definitely is something wrong with group level scaling. Is it just scaling according to the playernumbers ignoring ppl with bad gerar/skills or their levels?

It's most likely exactly the same (or with slightly tweaked values) as PoE's party scaling. Enemy damage/hp scaled by number of players present in a given zone.

To be clear -- I agree, it's probably not good that it works this way. But broken? No, I would chalk this up to bad (but very deliberate) design decision.

So its probably to avoid ppl abusing the system to lower difficulty in the endgame?

It still would be a good idea to change it for lower levels - otherwise many ppl probably will be frustrated a lot and not even go into groups.

Im new to POE2 - my first impression of Act1 Boss was WTF - for no reason except the scaling i didnt know about. I get it that it makes sense with higher level content and endgame. (it seriously felt as if the boss had infinite life in the groups i was in). I think not frustrating new players for no reason is important to also keep casuals and i doubt hardcore players would mind much in lower levels.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

So its probably to avoid ppl abusing the system to lower difficulty in the endgame?

It still would be a good idea to change it for lower levels - otherwise many ppl probably will be frustrated a lot and not even go into groups.

Im new to POE2 - my first impression of Act1 Boss was WTF - for no reason except the scaling i didnt know about. I get it that it makes sense with higher level content and endgame. (it seriously felt as if the boss had infinite life in the groups i was in). I think not frustrating new players for no reason is important to also keep casuals and i doubt hardcore players would mind much in lower levels.

IDK how much thought has been put into it. I'm pretty sure it's basically:

(#Players - 1) * X% HP/Damage increase for enemies.

I found this pretty manageable with two players, but beyond that it gets out of hand quickly.

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ReggShanks#0071 wrote:

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

So its probably to avoid ppl abusing the system to lower difficulty in the endgame?

It still would be a good idea to change it for lower levels - otherwise many ppl probably will be frustrated a lot and not even go into groups.

Im new to POE2 - my first impression of Act1 Boss was WTF - for no reason except the scaling i didnt know about. I get it that it makes sense with higher level content and endgame. (it seriously felt as if the boss had infinite life in the groups i was in). I think not frustrating new players for no reason is important to also keep casuals and i doubt hardcore players would mind much in lower levels.

IDK how much thought has been put into it. I'm pretty sure it's basically:

(#Players - 1) * X% HP/Damage increase for enemies.

I found this pretty manageable with two players, but beyond that it gets out of hand quickly.

Hopefully they change that for lower level players and story.

I get that this is needed for higher level content but in lower level content its just frustrating and many ppl that play in groups will think the game is insanely difficult if one of their friends isnt geared good.

Another option would to let other players see other peoples gear etc. - otherwise in random groups you cant even guess who the one with not enough dmg is.

My brother and I are towards the end of Act 3 and have been playing together the entire time.

Some bosses are more difficult than others, but so far we have been smashing through most of it fairly easy.

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Turddog#8292 wrote:

My brother and I are towards the end of Act 3 and have been playing together the entire time.

Some bosses are more difficult than others, but so far we have been smashing through most of it fairly easy.

Most of the issues seem to start when its a bigger party. 2 Players is fine 99% of the time.

Also you and your brother constantly playing together probably have better teamplay and a similar level of gear.


I just helped a few ppl stuck at bosses - the more ppl joined the harder it got for me up to a point where its almost impossible. I think its because damage an health scale while ignoring players that are geared worse. So at some point you cant compensate for worse geared players anymore but you wont know who it even is so you cant even help them etc.

The problem is that this can lead to rather bad expiriences of new players that dont even know the actual issue.

Usually its common that more ppl = easier. Which is tru ein POE2 aswell - but only if ppl are on a somewhat similar gear level and dont have bad builds.

GGG seems to not want more than 2 people to ever play together.

I agree whatever math they are using is bad and breaks above 2 players. But honestly they've probably just decided they'd get less hate for just making the game impossible with parties about 2 people than putting a hard restriction in place.

For the most part they've designed POE2 as a solo experience. Partying up seems like something added on begrudgingly with little to no care or consideration for scaling above 2+ people.

This is reasonable feedback to give in early access, but I wouldn't hold your breath, they don't seem to really want people to play their game with more than 1 other friend.

I've played most the bosses in full parties now. Sometimes half your team will have awful DPS and not contribute. They've progressed this far by being carried by others. I was the only one who could visibly move the health bar on a boss today in a 5 man, it took ages!

Still prefer partying bosses as it's more enjoyable than having to dodge all the time.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

-- he was almost invincible - did lots of attacks and hardly took damage
-- we attacked him for a long time and the healthbar just very slowly went down

I already tested with 2 people the boss health was increased by 150%, also it build up meter was increase by about 100%, its damage was increased by 100%. This makes partying in this game a joke, and if it continues in this way people will stop playing, a lot of players likes to play together, and making it as hard as it is just asking to lose players.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

There definitely is something wrong with group level scaling. Is it just scaling according to the playernumbers ignoring ppl with bad gerar/skills or their levels?

It only takes player amount, any overleveled player will receive a HUGE nerf to allow it to fight just like it was while on high level map.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

So its probably to avoid ppl abusing the system to lower difficulty in the endgame?

Sorry to say it to you but no, it doesn't stop abusing on endgame https://youtu.be/Z1ttJGGuy_8?si=FYtdejSWoFkofmdQ&t=262
Tryhards will just find a way to abuse being in a party, but you can't just balance the game for these people, if you balance the game for this type of players it will become another POE1 where anything will need to kill you in one hit because they leveled the player field to these players. A game should be made for everyone, not for tryhards.