Will Ascendant ever get a rework?

Ever since they announced that POE 2 would be a seperate game I was hoping that Scion would get some rework.

In the current game there are not many builds that Scion is competetive with - unless you have loads of currency to invest with.


Her unique ability to easily travel the tree has been overshadowed in the past years with skill, tree and item changes. Also, all classes gaining access to nodes without the need to travel: Impossible Escape, Thread of Hope, Annointments - to name a few.

Looking at a leaguestart scenario and early T17 specifically there aren´t many builds that come to mind. Perhaps Exsanguinate, to a lesser extent also Wardloop.

My own two builds I came up with this league are Flamewood (absolutely works on leaguestart and works best on Scion) and Infernal Blow (though it needs clusters early..). Edit: Some builds in my account are either unfinished, empty or scavenged for other projects.

I feel that the game is at a point where her lesser ascendancies dont offer enough and can´t compete with the more/less multipliers for damage and/or defences of other Ascendancies. No cluster or jewel can make up for that loss on a budget.


These past 2 leagues her reworked ascendanies feel extremely lackluster.

- lesser Berserker has lost its ability to gain rage on hit.

- lesser Gladiators "war of attrition" is hardly worth mentioning. 25% chance to aggravate bleeding is worse than the generic 20% phys dot multi she used to have. While blockchance from shield is nice, the previous incarnation offered much more.

- lesser Deadeyes frenzy charge while moving every 3 seconds is useless. We lost up to 50% increased damage with projectiles for this

- lesser Wardens additional tincture gives a short dps boost, but nothing more. Especially hard to justify using +1 tincute over a flask if you dont invest into the tree. We lost phasing, frenzy charges and onslaught for this. Edit: The 8% penetration and tincture is worse. Not all builds need this, while phasing onslaught and frenzy charges is something everyone can use.

- Oddly enough lesser pathfinder kept her 3 charges. I believe if the changed had been made today, they wouldve cut it down to 2 charges as well (I am looking at you "frenzy charge every 3 seconds while moving")

- To be fair: I loved the changes to chieftain (covered in ash) and guardian (block + regen)!


In every case I liked the previous incarnations of these ascendancies more, because they allowed me to adapt better.

I dont believe many people play ascendant. Many players I have talked to hardly ever touched her.

Those who do play her do so on a large budget, or act as a support in a group.

I am not asking for an absolute rework. But perhaps a change to her starting area, or revisit what parts of her ascendancies are actually ever useful.

If already only gets a quarter of each ascendancy then that quarter should include something useful.



What are the communities thoughts on her?

I love playing ascendant. I enjoy the challenge and try to make a different buid every league - with Famewood being this leagues absolute best Ive ever made an Ascendant work.
Though I hope there are a few more, like me, who would enjoy to see her shine from leaguestart onward.

Take care, exiles!

the problem i see with ascendant is that the watered down keystones for the most part are to weak and dont provide the mods that define the ascendancy of choice.
As a result a few extra passives points and better pathing are not enough to make up for all the power lost for not doing the same build on a different ascendancy.

i will rather have ascendant keystones be replaced with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy"

its easy to code and will give ascendant the flexibility it needs.

"

caboom wrote:

the problem i see with ascendant is that the watered down keystones for the most part are to weak and dont provide the mods that define the ascendancy of choice.
As a result a few extra passives points and better pathing are not enough to make up for all the power lost for not doing the same build on a different ascendancy.

i will rather have ascendant keystones be replaced with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy"

its easy to code and will give ascendant the flexibility it needs.

++

The past leagues really put her in a tough spot tbh. Affliction gave a taste of what Ascendant could be. I am suprised they didnt follow up on the ideas that charms brought.

I had some similar thoughts on her ascendancy.
While I agree that most of her ascendancies are lackluster, allowing her simply 1 keystone would nerf the watered down ascendancies that are useful (pf f.E.).


I thought this might be viable: When choosing "path of the..." you get two options.

A) Choose the starting point of that class.
B) Choose a keystone of that classes ascendancy from an ascendancy that has not been chosen (to prevent double dipping).

Alternatively, allow forbidden flame/flesh from other classes to work on scion, with the same restriction as B).


It must be hard for GGG to balance her. She may not be stronger than a class who is tailored to a specific archetype. But when her flexibility offers worse defences, dps, or QoL over other classes and their respective skills (on a budget), something should change.

Heck, I´d even enjoy small updates like %max life, evasion, es,etc on her small nodes, just to make progression feel a little better.

ascendant wont be a part of poe2 so why would it get a rework? they are not making new content for poe1 anymore.

"

ArtemisiaImmortalis wrote:

"

caboom wrote:

the problem i see with ascendant is that the watered down keystones for the most part are to weak and dont provide the mods that define the ascendancy of choice.
As a result a few extra passives points and better pathing are not enough to make up for all the power lost for not doing the same build on a different ascendancy.

i will rather have ascendant keystones be replaced with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy"

its easy to code and will give ascendant the flexibility it needs.

++

The past leagues really put her in a tough spot tbh. Affliction gave a taste of what Ascendant could be. I am suprised they didnt follow up on the ideas that charms brought.

I had some similar thoughts on her ascendancy.
While I agree that most of her ascendancies are lackluster, allowing her simply 1 keystone would nerf the watered down ascendancies that are useful (pf f.E.).


I thought this might be viable: When choosing "path of the..." you get two options.

A) Choose the starting point of that class.
B) Choose a keystone of that classes ascendancy from an ascendancy that has not been chosen (to prevent double dipping).

Alternatively, allow forbidden flame/flesh from other classes to work on scion, with the same restriction as B).


It must be hard for GGG to balance her. She may not be stronger than a class who is tailored to a specific archetype. But when her flexibility offers worse defences, dps, or QoL over other classes and their respective skills (on a budget), something should change.

Heck, I´d even enjoy small updates like %max life, evasion, es,etc on her small nodes, just to make progression feel a little better.

GGG can always give scion 3 ascendancies like everyone else

generalist: what we have now

specialist: replace keystones with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy"

gemling: keystones related to gems and jewels

"

caboom wrote:

the problem i see with ascendant is that the watered down keystones for the most part are to weak and dont provide the mods that define the ascendancy of choice.
As a result a few extra passives points and better pathing are not enough to make up for all the power lost for not doing the same build on a different ascendancy.

i will rather have ascendant keystones be replaced with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy"

its easy to code and will give ascendant the flexibility it needs.

++

Scion keystones are too watered down when compared to the pure ascendancy keystones, in the sense that the strongest keystone effects are entirely absent, in most (not all) cases. The watering down should present the same strong, core, keystone effects with lesser values.

I, too, would ask that the balance team (or individual) take a look at this situation and reconsider the company's MO with respect to this class.

My sense is that the current situation is the result of intentional steady, gradual nerfing over a long time period, which is a form of nerfing that tends to be less perceptible...because changes are minor, less acute, from revision to revision.

The result, now after a long time spent in slowly, steadily nerfing, is that Scion "keystones" are barely recognizable when compared to related pure class ascendancy keystone effects.

"

Lyutsifer665 wrote:

ascendant wont be a part of poe2 so why would it get a rework? they are not making new content for poe1 anymore.

oooof

you hit me where it hurts

scions power is in tree modifying jewels and jewels in general. the free passives scion gets REALLY convert into some raw power

and unique jewels are more and more build defining. other classes can use them, too. but it is scion's starting area that is best suited to it and these other classes have to pay with travel nodes.

as long as various passive transforming jewels exist Scion will have its place. but you have to be ready to spend pretty aug to get jewels that make it worth your while

there are few build-defining ascendancy keystones out there - but far less than what people claim. most keystones are just raw stats you can get (but with more hassle) from other sources. these raw stats are comparable to what you can get, just different way, from Ascendant's use of jewels

and if you have a build that likes jewels and isnt tied to one of the few TRULY unique ascendancies - Ascendant is the best. for years aura bots == Ascendants, curse bots got a boot, but you can still find builds that have 90%+ Ascendant representation due to good jewel synergy

If there was a skin to make Scion male, I would take the class as is. I wish they would make some way to swap genders. Remove the voice over if needed.

Also, with lesser Warden, you don't get the "Tincture Effects also apply to ranged weapons", so the +1 tincture is basically useless.

Did GGG not think about that?