Seems the new Retaliation Skills were only a Pipe Dream after all...

It was obvious that they're going to be this way. I played a retaliation build in Grim Dawn before the retaliation changes and it had the exact same issues. They tried to introduce an alternative way to use them with Arsenal of Vengeance but it's just crap

They would be fine if we had poe 2's socket system, because a 6L retaliation skill that doesn't interfere with the rest of our build would be amazing, but yeah

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auspexa wrote:

They tried to introduce an alternative way to use them with Arsenal of Vengeance but it's just crap

It's pretty obvious why, though. Blocking a hit does not prevent any "when hit" conditions. You still count as being hit, but the damage is negated entirely. So, that keystone only makes sense if you cannot get any Block, at all, which basically only applies to 2H builds that don't use staves. And even then, you could still pick up some Block. There's a line on the Wiki that is quite on point:

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However, it can potentially cause longer delays in availability of the skill if the player can block normally; at 17% block chance or higher, you will on average be able to activate Retaliation skills more frequently than with Arsenal of Vengeance

Arsenal of vengeance is a classic keystone where the developer was worried about it being broken in a way they didn't expect so they put it in with a garbage value.

Personally I can't see the point, It might be ok for a single passive on your way past as a 2h character but you then also have to link the retal and it functions opposite to how a 2h character would play any boss content.

Maybe if it let you keep a charge or two without it expiring but it definitely needs significantly more than it currently offers.

It like the worst performing retal skills has too much anti synergy and needs looking at, I hope they will - but I kinda know they won't lmao

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Draegnarrr wrote:

but I kinda know they won't lmao

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure. I think it's on their radar; definitely not at a high priority, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect some improvements in the next league patch.

GGG very rarely iterate, they say "that'll do" and move on to the next thing probably to keep up with their content cycle and because its a cleaner way to develop within reason.

But i hope i'm wrong i'd love to see some polish, but polish really aint their style.

GGG are a great representation for the fact that 90% of the work takes 50% of the time and the last 10% takes another 50%, so they just bin the last 10%. Its an approach I wish was different sometimes but I also love PoE and what GGG do so kinda just accept it too.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

But i hope i'm wrong i'd love to see some polish, but polish really aint their style.

Aye, it wasn't. At least, not until Mark took over. And when I say he, I do mean that as a collective since I have no idea who makes what calls or ultimately have the final say, but we have seen notable improvements since the replacement, and it appears the game is being steered towards more polish that it needs. Not saying that the previous direction was the wrong one, but it never hurts to have a pair of fresh eyes take a look.

I think Mark is far more flamboyant I don't think its any more polished, it isn't like he wasn't working there earlier he's just got pushed (or chose) to get front and centre and is doing a great job IMO.

But look at this league we've had what one patch? 3.25.1 was a month ago august 13th. Its the same as every league they aint got time to polish its get that next league out.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

I think Mark is far more flamboyant I don't think its any more polished, it isn't like he wasn't working there earlier he's just got pushed (or chose) to get front and centre and is doing a great job IMO.

But look at this league we've had what one patch? 3.25.1 was a month ago august 13th. Its the same as every league they aint got time to polish its get that next league out.

But you will admit that Kalguur was pretty polished compared to, say, Bestiary, Synthesis, Betrayal...

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ArtCrusade wrote:

But you will admit that Kalguur was pretty polished compared to, say, Bestiary, Synthesis, Betrayal...

Fair it was a good one, but its also very safe on the complexity compared to say Synthesis in particular.

I honestly don't want to explore it too much though because it makes me sound bitter or that I don't think they knocked it out the park this league when they did.

About the best league launch I can remember and I think finally stole top spot off Ritual for my favourite patch.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

But you will admit that Kalguur was pretty polished compared to, say, Bestiary, Synthesis, Betrayal...

Fair it was a good one, but its also very safe on the complexity compared to say Synthesis in particular.

I honestly don't want to explore it too much though because it makes me sound bitter or that I don't think they knocked it out the park this league when they did.

About the best league launch I can remember and I think finally stole top spot off Ritual for my favourite patch.

Didn't mean to dwell on the past either, just wanted to point out that some leagues need less aftercare than others. This one I think did good. :-)