Chat GPT is the best thing to happen to this game for New Players

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mefistozxz wrote:

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

Meanwhile, in PoE1 : First time Path of Exile when... yeah I'm good

Josh actually makes a very good point here. Basic game design issues that could be avoided. I remember from way back when, as people were introducing it to others, the most common immediate reaction was confusion. It looks like bloat to someone who has not yet found footing in this game. Which is a fundamental problem.

EDIT: Actually, a comment by a user in that video's comment section imo put it pretty well:

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And this is exactly what Elden Ring did with the map. You can't gauge how much the entire map will be because you cant scroll past the borders you already discovered. You just go "Wait, there's more??" but only after you already discovered that bit. And then the game brings you underground. "EVEN MORE??" It's huge but not dauntingly huge at first and there's no sense of rushing through it as a first time player. Just hide stuff.

Sorry....but no. It's not a good point. What was the first thing that sold this game over its competitors way way way back in 2013? The skill tree and the skill system. There was actually nothing else unique about PoE. Traditional gameplay, traditional leveling, traditional progress. It is the literal claim to fame that PoE has over anyone else. If someone is turned off just looking at something, that's a gamer fault not a design flaw. Or that the game just isn't for you.

That "first glance OMG" moment is precisely why it was designed that way. And also why it remains that way for 12 years now, and moving into the next generation of the game.

If it was such a "design flaw/failure", the game would not be where it is today and it would have been changed drastically during the 3 year beta, the 1 year alpha before that, and any of the first....12 years of the game's history.

I just realized :
But PoE1 does this too !
Are you going to claim that PoE1 shouldn't hide the next waypoints / acts / maps,
and even more strikingly, the very existence of both of the Atlas and Atlas Skills trees (which make a good half of the game !) — like it does now ?

(I do blame PoE1 for completely hiding the Ascendancy trees until you beat the labyrinth with that specific class (as well on future characters, even of that same class).)

well this thread is full of off-topic but haven't seen supporter staffer aka moderator yet....

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

I just realized :
But PoE1 does this too !
Are you going to claim that PoE1 shouldn't hide the next waypoints / acts / maps,
and even more strikingly, the very existence of both of the Atlas and Atlas Skills trees (which make a good half of the game !) — like it does now ?

(I do blame PoE1 for completely hiding the Ascendancy trees until you beat the labyrinth with that specific class (as well on future characters, even of that same class).)

Not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here (?)....but you are damn right they shouldn't present everything to you all at once. Rolling things out bit by bit is how these games work.

What, are you saying you want a map of every level, in every act, before you get there? You want a list of every single unique that might drop....before it drops? You want a list in-game of all possible mods on an item when you wake up on the beach?

How does that help anyone? And furthermore, how does that "improve" the game experience at all? Discovery and surprise are HUGE aspects of this genre of game.

The ONLY thing I would agree with is that PoE 2 should at least provide the names of the ascendancies of each class upon selecting a character: but not the trees. Like....if we want to select Marauder, have it show us that the Marauder can eventually branch into Berserker / Juggernaut, because those words alone can help determine the kind of build we want to make.

Sigh, no, that's not what I meant, I was sarcastic.

The best is both to not show to new players the full extent of the skill trees or the full megamap (or indeed even the existence of both Atlases),

but also to allow players that have already seen them to have quick access to that information on new characters :
being able to unlock on a simple click viewing the skill tree past the starting neighborhood, and at least their 3 ascendancy trees, and both Atlas trees.

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The ONLY thing I would agree with is that PoE 2 should at least provide the names of the ascendancies of each class upon selecting a character: but not the trees. Like....if we want to select Marauder, have it show us that the Marauder can eventually branch into Berserker / Juggernaut, because those words alone can help determine the kind of build we want to make.

Ah yeah, this kind of semi-spoiler is a great idea too !

(Oh, another example is how PoE1 only unlocks the Scion after you get to the end of Act 3.)

BlueTemplar: this thing has been discussed ad absurdum already. Clearly, the devs have considered it but decided against it. You and I can sit down, chat about the pros and cons of giving players the illusion of less choice (for beginners) and come up with ways to make it seem less obtuse, but ultimately the skill tree isn't even the most complex thing in PoE.

On the contrary, by showing players just how big it truly is and how many variations of builds can be made, the right person gets the right idea about the game. I think it's a positive.

Other games do this because their skill systems are not like PoE.

I.e. Diablo 4, Last Epoch, etc. all show you what skills a class has access to when specializing in it, which is actually a necessary design because no one wants to waste time to find out their character doesn't get access to, say, Summon Skeletons.

I think that each Ascendancy and also a portion of the skill tree should be available to look at from the character creation screen. Same principle applies as stated above. Since PoE's skill system isn't class specific but other things are, it should be shown.

If the game keeps hiding so much information while at the same time treating new players like noobs of the genre, it's just gonna stay where it is and not hit the 7 figures that Chris is shooting for.

I am an idiot and I replied to the wrong person just ignore me.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

BlueTemplar: this thing has been discussed ad absurdum already. Clearly, the devs have considered it but decided against it. You and I can sit down, chat about the pros and cons of giving players the illusion of less choice (for beginners) and come up with ways to make it seem less obtuse, but ultimately the skill tree isn't even the most complex thing in PoE.

On the contrary, by showing players just how big it truly is and how many variations of builds can be made, the right person gets the right idea about the game. I think it's a positive.

It was definitely a positive for me to see it the first time. I still even thought it was only an illusion of choice and there had to be something that will take my choices away from playing so many garbage dumbed down games over the years.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Other games do this because their skill systems are not like PoE.

I.e. Diablo 4, Last Epoch, etc. all show you what skills a class has access to when specializing in it, which is actually a necessary design because no one wants to waste time to find out their character doesn't get access to, say, Summon Skeletons.

I think that each Ascendancy and also a portion of the skill tree should be available to look at from the character creation screen. Same principle applies as stated above. Since PoE's skill system isn't class specific but other things are, it should be shown.

If the game keeps hiding so much information while at the same time treating new players like noobs of the genre, it's just gonna stay where it is and not hit the 7 figures that Chris is shooting for.

100% agreed. Therefore skilltree can stay as is. No need to treat players like they are idiots by hiding it more.

AI is creating a world of mindless drones.

How lazy can we humans possibly be?