WHY PUNISH PEOPLE FOR DYING?

"

mrhouston wrote:

The death exp penalty is there to artificially force you play a single character for a longer time. Whether by dying or avoiding death by repeating easy content over and over.

Or more like it encourages you to build a proper character and not just a "I paid for 6 portals so I use 6 portals to death rush a map" character.

Death penalties have always existed in lots of games in one or another way and PoE is seriously no exception.

"

it encourages you to build a proper character

The dying part does that.

The exp penalty part does this:

"

force players to play for longer, sell that forced longer time as a "harder" play, as if time was a skill.

on the contrary, I think the penalty for dying in sc should be much more severe, it means basically nothing at the moment until about level 97.

it should be possible to lose levels by dying, we should lose some gold for every death, ALL monsters in a map should be back to full life when we die, the map mod pool should have mods that make the monsters more difficult for each player death in the area, and the atlas should have a keystone that causes the map device to open the maps with only one portal, but with increased rewards.

GGG should do anything they can to get rid of all the zhp, 6 portal zoomer builds

"

auspexa wrote:

ALL monsters in a map should be back to full life when we die, the map mod pool should have mods that make the monsters more difficult for each player death in the area, and the atlas should have a keystone that causes the map device to open the maps with only one portal, but with increased rewards.

GGG should do anything they can to get rid of all the zhp, 6 portal zoomer builds

PoE2 has already something like that, shouldn't be that hard for them to implement it into PoE1.
But I agree with you, the death penalty should be way more harsh as the little experience lose means little to nothing in the current version with tons of free exp all over the place.

All this free XP exists if you're an expert at the game. Myself, I've only got 1000 hours in it, so when I pop at level 94 it takes me a good 30 minutes to get that time back. I think it's a fair penalty, and an incentive to improve.

I'd be in favor of GGG removing EXP loss on death for a league and getting feedback.

It's a common reason I've heard from players who stop playing leagues early. And removing it doesn't guarantee these players will hit 100 or kill 7/7 Uber Pinnacles... the first takes a long ass time and the second will 6 portal players who aren't Ben or build appropriate defensive layers.

Seems like a good idea to trial it at some stage and hope to retain players even longer!

I'm not the biggest fan of the xp penalty myself anymore, but OP is very disengenious if he truly plays PC games for that long.

I started on a 386 myself, so I know many many games had much more severe penalties for failure back then.

Just talking about the Diablo series, since u say u're a fan of that... in Diablo 1 when u died it was either Game over and reload ur Game (Single Player) or u drop all ur items on the ground and have to get them back (Multi Player). Remember that D1 also didn't have a stash, so u bascially had to get them back naked :D
Diablo 2 had almost the same XP penalty as PoE, 10% per death and u lost ur gear temporarily until u got back to ur corpse (which would refund 5% of the lost XP aswell) or u relogged and didn't get the XP back.
Only after that, with the "new" Diablo in D3 and D4 they stopped penalties probably because they thought newer audiences wouldn't like it.

Even tho u can't really compare pure single player games to an online ARPG, still games like Baldur's Gate would punish u for failure. If u failed a fight, ur characters would straight up die and maybe u could bring some back (don't remember 100%) it wouldn't be cheap/easy. If the main character died, u straight up had to reload from whenever u saved last. That's a punishment aswell, isn't it?

I think u just don't remember how those games really were. Whenever I replay older titles, I'm kinda surprised what we endured back then and it still was alot of fun :D (and still is)

Because it's a well designed game that provides challenges to overcome.

Why shouldn't there be a substantial benefit to staying alive?

"

I do enjoy playing these types of games such as Diablo series and Last Epoch but neither of those 2 punish their players by deleting 5% of their hard earned experience.

I don't know if this is true for recently released games, but Diablo 2 certainly had xp penalty for death that were as punishing or more punishing at high level than POE.

One of the most redundant experiences in an game I have done was levelling my first character to paragon 100 cap in diablo 3. There was functionally no noticeable benefit to doing this beyond say level 99. It was just a time sink to get number 100, which they subsequently invalidated by adding infinite paragon levels. There was little skill to this beyond being geared enough to run the same zone repeatedly at a certain speed. Eventually I would get there, if I took the time, but there wasn't really any way to go faster based off skill or knowledge or items. One paragon point was worth a lot less than one skill point in POE, as it was on top of the base skill system and had diminishing returns. Another build could of done the same by just spending a similar amount of time. In POE there is more of a challenge getting these higher levels, it's not just based on time, which makes it more of an achievement. You can still grind out the XP, but someone who is able to handle rare maps will be rewarded in time against me if I can only run magic maps safely. Giving a reason to have a better build.

You could say this for any aspect of the game that provides difficulty or resistance. The game could still function without these challenges, but then it just becomes increasing dps and picking up randomly generated loot. There is going to be a spectrum of difficulty that some people wont enjoy on the high end and others wont enjoy on the low end. Why not remove reflect? Why not remove monster damage? Why not remove levelling gems? Why not make crafting free? Everything in the game has some sort of purpose and goes together to make the game.

I don't particularly like the crystal ore map bosses, but it doesn't mean I want them removed from the game, because it would become more bland. There are certain times like with foundry boss that the difficulty is a bit over the top and should be altered. I would say though, that map is much less interesting now without the challenge.

I would ask what is it about POE that you like that has you playing rather than those other games? Could it be the depth of the mechanics? If you remove mechanics other things can get effected. If you remove death penalties all builds start to migrate towards glass cannon or the next thing becomes why aren't we able to have infinite portals.

The game could be shorter, but looking on POE ninja for this league I see someone reached 100 on day 1 and 97 in SSF, so should it be shorter than that? The gap between the top end and casual players makes it very hard to balance. I think they did a lot in the last league to improve this, like respawns in the campaign, but even this is cheesable in some situations which is not perfect.

I remember playing NES games that you have 3 lives and once lost its game over. you needed to start again from the beginning. how did we survive those times lel

The game offers some solutions:
1. There is an Omen (item) that gets consumed when you die and negates a portion of the lost experience. While its a waste to use it in every situation, it certainly is a great thing to have past lvl 90. There are countless other omens that can help you... like the one that refills your flasks when your health drops under certain %. As for 1shots - what can i say... it is a dynamic game
2. If you feel squishy maybe its time to pick another build. Plenty of builds offer max resistances max spell suppression, evasion/block chance etc