Melee enjoyers?

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Phrazz wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

1h Axes and Maces are not used beucase PoE is all about crits. Who the hell even plays noncrit build nowadays?

Well, Elemental Overload is the 7th most used Keystone passive right now, so there are plenty of non-crit builds out there. So it's DEFINITELY more of a melee problem than anything else, or at least an attack problem. You should stop using phrases like "who the hell even plays X nowadays" and start thinking about WHY no one is using it, and you would actually start to see the issues a lot of people are talking about - instead of just wrapping every issue into the "just how PoE is nowadays". With that attitude, no issue will ever be fixed.

It's not wrong or stupid to want the underplayed/underpowered areas of melee to be better. It's not wrong to want the totally forgotten melee skills be be brought up to today's standards. It's not wrong to want more scaling options for melee. It's not wrong to have decent defensive alternatives outside of uber uniques.

The fact that there are tons of issues with melee doesn't mean melee is unplayable, nor that you need "5 mirrors". But it doesn't mean that the issues should be ignored either.

Elemental Overload is used by ignite and even poison builds, thats why its so high. But if you go with typical "hit build" you go crit route. So to make exaes and maxes usefull, you would need to give them simillar crit chance as swords - but whats the point? Then they just become "diffrent shape sword".

Imo we should just remove whole axe/mace/sword thing and make upgrades for all 3 of those the same and make all of them "one handed melee weapon" type. Same with 2h.

Rangeds have Bow and Wand. Thats it. (when we talk about rnaged attacks)
Melee? Staff, 1h Axe, 2h Axe, 1h Sword, 2h Sword, 1h Mace, 2h Mace, Claws, Dagger, Scepter.
Do we REALLY need TEN diffrent weapons to do pretty much the same? Just remove half of them.

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Phrazz wrote:

But if you SERIOUSLY think that 1H sword, axe, daggers and/or maces (outside the usual unique(s)) are in a good spot, then fine; I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you think dual wield as a whole is in a good spot outside of ONE skill, then again; we just have to agree to disagree. When was the last time you played a build like that, BTW?

https://pobb.in/4jc5N2F7k4SE

6 mio dps without flasks, same as your trickster with 2-3 times the max hits on a ~3 div budget using regular dual strike and 1c weapons.

How much damage exactly do you think a build like this should have to be "fine"? If i flipp this to DSoA the dps more than doubles so i guess 14 mio dps for 3 div budget is your idea of balanced? Still sane exile?

ancestral 1,2
vaal ancestral warchief 1,32
so 1.584 let s say 60% more damage without panopticon
with panopticon it would be 90% more damage but there is an opportunity cost to panopticon, for an anoint would be 15% more ?
let s say 60% to 70% more damage
half of that is what you propose so 35% more dps on all melee skill

just for your number 1 proposition. and yet you dont understand complaint of people on this forum


your second proposition is funny since you advocate a lot on the forum on void forge to go to next level.

as for the trans gems it s of course a buff in many cases. lucky for us ggg didnt buy your stance on nothjing wrong with the difference of power between gems and they made an effort for unusued gems.


so there is some discussion to have on melee after all.


as for dozens on cheap way to be borderline immortal. dunno why you exagerate that much.
this league there is stuff like 50% overwhelm phys. let s say you encounter a rare that also has overwhelm, he gets 80% overwhelm !!!
dozens of way ? phys taken as ? life builds but you would need a lot to compensate. is strength of blood even a build ?
and btw none of the 3 tech that i mentionned even appear on the passive tree. before you at least had phys taken as on chieftain. just a design philosophy not specific to melee but still. pushing people into dead end techs.
i ll let you list 5 other techs to be borderline immortal to this. that would 8 < 12.

offscreening would be the safer option.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

6 mio dps without flasks, same as your trickster with 2-3 times the max hits on a ~3 div budget using regular dual strike and 1c weapons.

How much damage exactly do you think a build like this should have to be "fine"? If i flipp this to DSoA the dps more than doubles so i guess 14 mio dps for 3 div budget is your idea of balanced? Still sane exile?

Why are we only talking damage here?

You're posting a Strike build with only one additional strike, hardly 4 attacks per second and a movement multiplier of 54% without Berserk up and on-tree splash and comparing it to a build made for speed-clearing maps. I wouldn't touch that build with a ten-foot pole while mapping, because to me - and my playstyle, it would feel atrocious.

Sure, my build is only at around 6-7 mill pinnacle DPS without flasks, but it feels amazing doing maps, which is my jam these days. And sure, I could throw a Steelskin in there to deflate the EHP numbers, I have the sockets, but don't see the point.

I swear, people hear "balance" and are only thinking "damage".

I totally understand people wanting totems gone. I don't understand people wanting totems gone with 100% baked into it + doubled base gem damage on top + baked in 50% fortify that applies to dots as well, built in auto hit aka no accuracy and no manacost and and and... that's what most people here want, just read the suggestions made for a change. That's what i take an issue with.

Don't really know what you mean with "voidforge to the next level". Voidforge is one example of a good weapon, there are a few others already and i think they should expand on that using different scaling methods obviously.

Regarding defense, i was talking about gear/tree setups. Not mechanics. There are only 3 ways to mitigate phys damage but there are dozens of ways to combine and utilize them making for different builds. Same for elemental/chaos damage.
Off screening is only safer as long as the game let's you do that and there is plenty of content with monsters appearing in your face where offscreening isn't an option to begin with.

"

Phrazz wrote:

Why are we only talking damage here?

You're posting a Strike build with only one additional strike, hardly 4 attacks per second and a movement multiplier of 54% without Berserk up and on-tree splash and comparing it to a build made for speed-clearing maps. I wouldn't touch that build with a ten-foot pole while mapping, because to me - and my playstyle, it would feel atrocious.

Sure, my build is only at around 6-7 mill pinnacle DPS without flasks, but it feels amazing doing maps, which is my jam these days. And sure, I could throw a Steelskin in there to deflate the EHP numbers, I have the sockets, but don't see the point.

I swear, people hear "balance" and are only thinking "damage".

I was talking ehp and damage actually and you are the one here who keeps complaining that melee has bad defense and damage, is it so surprising for me to address those points? Even if you "inflate" your EHP number with a steel skin it's still going to be way worse.
My build has a quicksilver flask for movement speed which has 100% uptime during maps and dual strike has that full life mod which combined with tribal fury means everything you touch during mapping dies on the spot, you never have to attack twice unless really tanky rares. If you feel like 1 ancestral isn't enough, add another it's just one passive point you need to change. Your build might be slightly faster due to frost blades inherent good projection but you'll also die a lot more, especially in juicier content.

I'll just throw your own line back at you here, when was the last time you played a build like that?

/edit But that's all beside the point really, the actual question i was interested in is what your idea of "balanced" looks like? But obviously you refuse to answer that, as usual.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I'll just throw your own line back at you here, when was the last time you played a build like that?

A Dual Strike build? ToTA, I think. And I'm leveling one now.

people want totem numbers and buffed fortify baked in because thats about what it would take to make melee not utterly miserable for the most part. Most melee skills are balanced around double ancestor totems in terms of damage and attack speed which makes playing them when you aren't in range of the totem miserable and contribute significantly to how horribly clunky the builds feel. If the totems were not included in whatever calc they use to balance gems and gear it would be less awful but the simple fact that most melee builds are designed around a 60% more multiplier that you have to jump through hoops to get up is incredibly annoying. Fortify being baked in would at least somewhat compensate melee for its vastly reduced range by making it easier to get a useful amount of survivability, especially since melee builds that aren't cyclone tend to have a terrible time dodging stuff. People asking to remove accuracy are pointing out that spell builds are an awful lot easier to gear than attack builds because they have fewer things to worry about. I personally think accuracy is annoying but pretty far down on the list of things that need to be changed, there are a lot of ways to get enough, many of which come with good collateral benefits as well.

your vermillon is almost 2 to 3 divine alone, more than 1 month into the league
the watcher eye with 2 hit pride was more than 3 divine just recently, and way more if i recall correctly
you have abyssus with 0 phys taken as ele
you have berserked checked
you have a killed recently checked for a single target dps
you forgot a 16% attack speed enchant if recent kill
you have 3654 life at lvl 95 with an abyssus

you re also champion and ofc go to the bottom right spell suppress wheel. nothing wrong with it, but it s one of the ggg "daily quest" type design.

also you could have put a warlord mark to regen your rage. if you encounter one tough yellow in maps and pop berserk technically you have super slow rage regen.

items are basically life resist spell suppress as expected.
exactly where melee builds tend to get them.

You can roll a ring like that with a bit of harvest crafting. Heck, just use an amethyst base instead and aim for single resist and non crafted life not that big of a task. Honestly do i have to do all the thinking here?

If the impale watchers eye is too expensive because of splitting steels current popularity just take another one. Last time i bought a WE like that it was like 50 chaos. Use that money to throw a few eldrich currency at the armor and boots, they don't have any currently. I made that build by quickly throwing a bunch of stuff at it i had lying around, it's obviously not perfect. Should also compensate for that boot enchant i overlooked. Here is an adjusted version with a WE that is 25c and i removed the vermillion so it's more like 1 or 2 div budget now with almost the same dps and ehp:

https://pobb.in/3dMhUuDHskOB

As for the defence, just go and try playing it. Between the armor, evasion and leech you won't have any issues with phys hits unless you are trying to tank shaper slams. You can explode packs of porcs at point blank and laugh it off.

If you don't like the "daily quest" design then just invest those points elsewhere? Go max res? The only reason that build uses DF + SS is because it's tree is based on my endgame build designed to take on ubers where measures against high ele pen are needed. For regular pinnacles or mapping you don't need that and it's not like a build on this budget should have any business tackling ubers.

You've got to get the perspective right here, that POB isn't some thought out build. It's something i quickly threw together while deliberately making suboptimal choices at every corner to avoid "daily quest".

It's a phys build which has the worst scaling, it's dual wield which has no real place to be between S&B and 2 hander, it's using a mediocre gem, it's using suboptimal weapons even for that budget and i still got that much out of it. If i go "daily quest" with some polishing (aka what you are supposed to do when tackling tough content), this shoots up to 15-20 mio with little to no increase in budget. I honestly don't get why you and Phrazz seem to think you are entitled to do t17 and ubers on deliberately bad builds that avoid all the good options available because they are "daily quest". Have you ever tried making a spell caster or bow build without daily quest? You should try it, it's really fun /S

I'll ask you the same thing i asked Phrazz. What is your idea of "balanced" or "fine"? How much damage/EHP do you think a thrown together league starter level melee build should have to be "fine"? 10 mio dps? 20? 50? 100? Tell me. Because i genuinely believe that 6 mio dps (or 4 mio without berserk, still more than your build has for less investment) is plenty fine for something on that budget level and with so many self imposed restrictions baked in.

with berserk abyssus, change back to the triple rage bonus setup i had the whole time before i tested blitz it yesterday, use dread banner + impale watcher wich i didnt have cause expensive until recently, replace ancestral call for multistrike you probably didnt even realize that i was using a clear support, add 10% more damage cause you dont have intimidate, add 16% attack speed from your fake boot enchant i am at 18 millioon dps. no flask no frenzy charges. even that you cant get that right. and i should add the crush on awakened brutality for stuff that resist phys. so another 10% ?did you even put close range in the config for my close combat support ?

fucking joke