I'm wondering

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

Ulsarek wrote:

That is simply not true. There was a bug six years ago or so that resulted in specific characters being unable to drop prime resonators or spawn certain delve bosses. This happened and was openly communicated once the problem was identified and fixed.

I was there for this and you are mildly wrong about the outcome. It was not a "seed", but rather a procedural issue with how Delve laid out content that became visible. The nodes that you hadn't reached yet, but were visible on your map were pre-loaded along with chests. The "bug" was an interaction with the mine layout and an unintended erasure of chest contents.

The "seed" talk was all conspiracy theory circulating en masse by those missing out. Much like it does today...When in fact this was a simple delve bug. They tied the chest loot to the wrong procedure generation. This has actually happened with chests quite a few times in PoE history (and in Diablo history too actually...).

I would also point out that this was very audibly FIXED by GGG quite quickly, actually giving more evidence that there is NO RNG seed.

Fair enough. I was under the impression there was a manifesto regarding this but I couldn't find it. Might have been misremembering after 6 years.

^what was discussed was that the entire mine was essentially "preloaded", bugs and all. Certain mines were preloaded with a bug that made prime chests not exist. This was seen as a loot "seed" but rather it was a bug with the way that the mine was originally being generated. It affected a small subset of players, because every player had their own unique mine, and the pre-load caused "interesting" interactions with the chests.

GGG's fix was to make the mine constantly "reload" itself every 8x8 square you travel, rather than having a preset infinite mine tied to a character from the start.

I just reread all the patches and notes from 3.4 lol.

All the "seed" talk was a misunderstanding of the issue, and a loud echo chamber from streamers amplifying it to all corners of the forum. Happens all the time.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

my god....its no wonder society is going to hell in a hand-basket, and collective intelligence of newer generations is declining.

I will NOT argue any further with tinfoil hats based in a completely alternate reality. I simply will not.

1) GGG does not adjust drop rates regularly, through shadow patches, through sneaky means, partway through a league, etc. They have the capability to do so, but 100%, a THOUSAND %, do not do it. There is no benefit to them doing this, there is no monetary incentive to spend on people doing this, nothing. It. does. not. happen. People claiming to understand probability, and still make claims against this....do NOT understand probability!

2) They don't need to outright say they don't do it, for it to be true. Much like the news doesn't have to tell you "The sky will NOT be falling on you today", or "Today, gravity will continue to keep hold of you". Again, there is no benefit to them to lend credence to completely baffling and nutty conspiracy theories such as micromanaged drop rates. They don't need to "prove" probability for it to remain true. They don't need to "prove" every strong of bad or good luck and how it fits in the grand scheme of set rates.

3) I cannot say this strongly enough: There is no such thing as an RNG "seed". The sheer idea of something like this existing is a complete denial of mathematics, probability, randomness, and percentages. THEY DO NOT NEED SEEDS! RNG alone creates a seed-like effect. No developer alive is going to create an entirely separate list of drop rates, or multiple sets, that get randomly chosen based on ANOTHER totally arbitrary system. There is absolutely no need for that. I'll repeat: people who claim to understand probability and then offer this ridiculous idea...do NOT understand probability!

End of story. Other's lack of sense and critical thinking is not grounds for GGG to "prove" they are doing any of this.

LOL it 100% simply not true, end of the story. That awesome argument xD

If it so why not state it?
Fair and S.A.M.E rules for all, have your hear anything about this in PoE?
Any officials tell something like this at least 1 time in the past 10 years? xD

What about PoE 2?

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

^what was discussed was that the entire mine was essentially "preloaded", bugs and all. Certain mines were preloaded with a bug that made prime chests not exist. This was seen as a loot "seed" but rather it was a bug with the way that the mine was originally being generated. It affected a small subset of players, because every player had their own unique mine, and the pre-load caused "interesting" interactions with the chests.

GGG's fix was to make the mine constantly "reload" itself every 8x8 square you travel, rather than having a preset infinite mine tied to a character from the start.

I just reread all the patches and notes from 3.4 lol.

All the "seed" talk was a misunderstanding of the issue, and a loud echo chamber from streamers amplifying it to all corners of the forum. Happens all the time.

Thanks for clarifying. I was wrong and stand corrected. After looking it up again damn, wild times. Almost hard to believe it's been 6 years.

Honestly some people need to learn about how computers work. Almost every single game in existence uses pseudo random generation because... well its faster, and more managable, and industry standard for like 20 years. Saying poe doesn't have seeds a bad argument, it is how procedural games work at a fundamental level. How much effect a seed has is completely unknown. Game devs want games that ate completable. True randomness often isn't.

Apparently knowing a little bit about how computers work is a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

Also we know GGG changes drop rates in undocumented patches because they litetally say they revert them. Again they don't need to communicate everything because that would be thousands of patch notes.

"

roundishcap wrote:

Honestly some people need to learn about how computers work. Almost every single game in existence uses pseudo random generation because... well its faster, and more managable, and industry standard for like 20 years. Saying poe doesn't have seeds a bad argument, it is how procedural games work at a fundamental level. How much effect a seed has is completely unknown. Game devs want games that ate completable. True randomness often isn't.

Apparently knowing a little bit about how computers work is a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

Also we know GGG changes drop rates in undocumented patches because they litetally say they revert them. Again they don't need to communicate everything because that would be thousands of patch notes.

No one is arguing against the fact that PoE uses pseudo RNG through so-called seeds. No one.

Tinfoil territory starts where people state that GGG punishes people with bad RNG for "speaking out" or misbehaving in global chat, while other people who "white knight" GGG or buy supporter packs get good RNG.

Not only is that offensive to anyone's individual achievements playing the game who conducts themselves adequatly, there's simply no evidence of it. And by evidence I mean anything beyond "I bought a supporter pack and found a divine orb 5 maps later"

It is not provable one way or the other, and for as long as you cannot prove it to be true it remains a theory. A laughable one at that

"

roundishcap wrote:

Honestly some people need to learn about how computers work. Almost every single game in existence uses pseudo random generation because... well its faster, and more managable, and industry standard for like 20 years. Saying poe doesn't have seeds a bad argument, it is how procedural games work at a fundamental level. How much effect a seed has is completely unknown. Game devs want games that ate completable. True randomness often isn't.

Apparently knowing a little bit about how computers work is a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

Also we know GGG changes drop rates in undocumented patches because they litetally say they revert them. Again they don't need to communicate everything because that would be thousands of patch notes.

man I said I wouldn't but I'll bite because what you are saying isn't tinfoil...its a simple misunderstanding in this post.

You are conflating two DIFFERENT phenomenons: RNG and Seeding. Not one person in this thread has EVER said the game offers TRUE RANDOM. RNG, by its very definition as a "generator", is not truly random. That isn't in dispute.

But BECAUSE GGG uses RNG, and set parameters such as "Monsters have .1% chance to drop a unique", with further parameters on the uniques themselves such as ".1% t0, 10% t1, blahblah", there is NO NEED for a "seed" on top of that. The "randomness" is already achieved. "It is how procedural games work at a fundamental level".....this is simply not correct. Procedural games work on a ratio, and a cascade of ratios as I described above. They don't create an entire system of RNG, and then a DIFFERENT system of RNG, and then SEED these two systems based on some unknown value. That is redundant, unnecessary, and slows down the processing. It wastes resources.

In your post, you mention "faster, more manageable, industry standard". It is exponentially faster and more manageable to have ONE system than to have many duplicated systems, slightly askew from one another.

And again....you are putting words in where they were never said, or even the opposite was said. YES we know that GGG CAN and does change drop rates. They change them when they deem it necessary for the health of the game, and in big moments that are documented. "GGG changes drop rates in undocumented patches because they literally say...."....I can't point to a single instance where this has ever been true. Any time that GGG has even slightly changed drop rates, they have ALWAYS stated as much and the reasoning behind it. They did this with harbingers, with the delve thing from 2018, with the current league mechanic, with the last league mechanic, all of them.

The fact that they CAN change loot drop values is NOT in dispute. Never has been, so stop trying to change the subject. The fact is they DON'T arbitrarily change loot values on any kind of whim, mid league, or simply because "too many x have dropped this month".

You don't enter a game instance and get assigned better/worse RNG % values than anyone else. The RNG values are always the same no matter what. HOW the RNG values play out for YOU in real-time is where you see differences that breed conspiracy theories.

It is all a series of dice rolls, and any one difference means you and I have a different drop.

"

Emperor_home wrote:

If it so why not state it?
Fair and S.A.M.E rules for all, have your hear anything about this in PoE?
Any officials tell something like this at least 1 time in the past 10 years? xD

What about PoE 2?

Do they need to state that when you press the "Q" button, it will cast the Q-assigned skill? Do they need to outright tell you that everyone's right click will have the same function for you to understand that to be the case?

How about in-game battles, do they need to tell you that YOUR shaper doesn't have 100x the hp and damage of MY shaper?

How about the acts? Is my reward for helping Eramir in act 2 100 passive points?

They owe you nothing they haven't already given you in the form of....playing the game.


Trust is a bad argument....but if you literally have ZERO trust that your experience with the game is the same as anyone else's, that is YOUR personal hangup and I would suggest just not playing the game then. I wonder what real life feels like with that mindset...Truman Show-esque.

Dude really thinks streamer has better drops lmao I am so fascinated by that.