Overwhelm on enemies should not give 300% more damage against players

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Sjatar wrote:

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roundishcap wrote:

I am 90% sure that some enemy types have passive overwhelm,

Its just as stupid as that rouge exile that can't miss.

I cannot find any enemies that have implicit overwhelm ^^ Except in Ancestor league where most Rongokurai had overwhelm.

Only source I know is the mod enemies can get. Also altars and expedition remnants but these I don't have a problem with as they are skippable and meant to be punishing for specific builds.

Would only be a thing on core mobs if they had Intimidating Cry, but there's none

+1000000

I made a rly nice jugg character on HC, with similar stats to yours - 45k armour, 8 endurance charges (at all time with Ralakesh boots) just to almost die to a pack of blue monsters with phys overwhelm... the idea was to make a caster build with tanky ascendency to be able to play with relatively low hp (but high ehp) + dual wielding, but just because of this ONE mode im rly forced to invest into phys dmg taken as something else + more life...
it ruins the whole concept and makes the whole character non-elegant.

If you can tank 2 shaper slams but die to blue monsters then there's trully something wrong here.

I had no idea it was even such a huge damage bonus lol, I thought it meant like 25% inc damage on the hit or some shit. So that's why random archnemesis and blue mobs delete me when I have 0 armor 0 evasion 0 suppression 0 block 0 spell dodge and 2800 hp. Good to know I guess.

Agree that this is a bad mod. Reason being that I think sabotaging the validity of base defenses is bad design which convolutes the game rule set for making working builds.

Quick search => other sources of phys overwhelm:
- Unrelenting Timeless Emblems
- Ultimatum mod
- Vaal side area mod

Phys taken as isnt hard to get, you can craft 12 on chest, 8 on helmet explicit and easily get 6 on helmet implicit. Doesnt matter if you have 150k armour, if youre playing hc you should be moving damage to ele.

The only exception to this is when you have to play left side of tree so fourth vow xibaqua and loreweave eternal damnation is the only way to survive spells.

btw, 50k armour is nothing for a jugg. my champion had 70k armour before i killed kitava this league

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Lonnie455Rich wrote:

Phys taken as isnt hard to get, you can craft 12 on chest, 8 on helmet explicit and easily get 6 on helmet implicit. Doesnt matter if you have 150k armour, if youre playing hc you should be moving damage to ele.

The only exception to this is when you have to play left side of tree so fourth vow xibaqua and loreweave eternal damnation is the only way to survive spells.

btw, 50k armour is nothing for a jugg. my champion had 70k armour before i killed kitava this league

Your comment would fit better if I asked for build help but you exemplify perfectly why overwhelm is bad ^^ The over-reliance and pigeonholing phys taken as does limits build variety as it's limited to either uniques, auras+watchers or rare helmet and body armour. Some builds cannot get these things but can get normal physical mitigation but given overwhelm is in the game, normal physical mitigation is not reliable against the damage type it's supposed to defend against.

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Toforto wrote:

I had no idea it was even such a huge damage bonus lol, I thought it meant like 25% inc damage on the hit or some shit. So that's why random archnemesis and blue mobs delete me when I have 0 armor 0 evasion 0 suppression 0 block 0 spell dodge and 2800 hp. Good to know I guess.

I think this is a joke but just to make sure. Overwhelm does not do anything unless you have physical mitigation to overwhelm. So in the case of a character with 0 mitigation overwhelm does not make you take 30% more damage.

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Sjatar wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

I had no idea it was even such a huge damage bonus lol, I thought it meant like 25% inc damage on the hit or some shit. So that's why random archnemesis and blue mobs delete me when I have 0 armor 0 evasion 0 suppression 0 block 0 spell dodge and 2800 hp. Good to know I guess.

I think this is a joke but just to make sure. Overwhelm does not do anything unless you have physical mitigation to overwhelm. So in the case of a character with 0 mitigation overwhelm does not make you take 30% more damage.

Ooooh, well that's good then. So I guess they don't do any extra damage to me when I have 0 armor. Maybe they do a bit of extra since the 4 minimum endurance charges from hiero ascendancy give me some phys reduction but its like 10% or something.

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Toforto wrote:

Ooooh, well that's good then. So I guess they don't do any extra damage to me when I have 0 armor. Maybe they do a bit of extra since the 4 minimum endurance charges from hiero ascendancy give me some phys reduction but its like 10% or something.

Each Endurance Charge gives 4% Physical Damage Reduction so the 16% from Hierophant would indeed be overwhelmed

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

Ooooh, well that's good then. So I guess they don't do any extra damage to me when I have 0 armor. Maybe they do a bit of extra since the 4 minimum endurance charges from hiero ascendancy give me some phys reduction but its like 10% or something.

Each Endurance Charge gives 4% Physical Damage Reduction so the 16% from Hierophant would indeed be overwhelmed

Yes at 16% mitigation 30% overwhelm represents 19% more damage ^^

min( 1-0.16+0.3 , 1) / (1-0.16) ~= 1.19

We have the min in there as overwhelm cannot make your mitigation go into the negative or represent a more multiplier for enemy damage. So instead we just assume after overwhelm we take all the damage from the enemy without any mitigation.