Overwhelm on enemies should not give 300% more damage against players

If a character has 90% mitigation against a physical hit, and the enemy has overwhelm which gives 30% overwhelm. The enemy has essentially 300% more damage against the player.

There is little reason for a end game character to get actual physical mitigation when it's countered hard by a common modifier. It's better in all cases to get phys as ele as there is no common source of elemental penetration.

It's weird that getting actual physical mitigation can leave you more vulnerable against physical damage as it's much less efficient then other damage layers when facing overwhelm.

Overwhelm is one reason that players are almost always solving physical mitigation by getting elemental mitigation, which I don't think should be the case.

That's why there's more ways to mitigate physical damage than just that and also why even builds with tons of armour often utilize phys taken as.

Also, 90% phys damage reduction in your tooltip doesn't necessarily mean 90% phys damage reduction if it relies on armour. The only reliable sources for that are Endurance Charges and flat amounts from e.g. armour bodies & shields.

Your example also isn't very accurate. If you actually had 90% phys damage reduction and the enemy overwhelms 30%, you'd take 400% more damage (or +300% damage)

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ArtCrusade wrote:

That's why there's more ways to mitigate physical damage than just that and also why even builds with tons of armour often utilize phys taken as.

Also, 90% phys damage reduction in your tooltip doesn't necessarily mean 90% phys damage reduction if it relies on armour. The only reliable sources for that are Endurance Charges and flat amounts from e.g. armour bodies & shields.

Your example also isn't very accurate. If you actually had 90% phys damage reduction and the enemy overwhelms 30%, you'd take 400% more damage (or +300% damage)

Sorry to argue about details but 300% more damage is a 4x multiplier which is what you'd see if you lost 30% phys mit at 90% total. (1-0.9+0.3)/(1-0.9) = 4 which is 300% more damage ^^

I know that tooltip mitigation is not real and that bigger hits would not necessary get the same amount of benefit from overwhelm. But overwhelm is only a mod magic monsters can get and I think that you can with certainty assume you have 90% mitigation if you have a character that gets a moderately high phys mit setup. The character I have has 45k armour and 7 endurance charges. Together with 12% phys taken as ele.

So in essence I would say that overwhelm is 300% more damage for characters that heavily tried to mitigate the damage it deals. Which is weird as no other common specific damage modifier proportionally punishes players trying to mitigate that specific damage more.

I specify common as there is pen in specific but avoidable content. But there is no way to avoid overwhelm.

mm.


-max is the elemental mod rather than pen. in the past -max used to be kind of broken as was pointed out by many because it used to go to -25% max res on map mods. thats essentially 100% more damage taken.

that was silly because compared to most other mods it was out of scale. monsters could have 30% damage mutiplier, monsters could have 100% damage as extra of an element which under the hood is 100% of phys as extra ele, of which you resist 75% so its sort of 25% more damage against most characters like ci, low life, mom, life stack, block etc.

so we had various mods that were in the 20-35% extra damage range and then -25 max sitting out there with its 100% extra damage taken being insane. so it was nerfed, its about half that now?



so yeah 300% is a wild number. it would be a lot less than that even against most armour/phys setups i think. -12 max res is about 50% more damage taken but against an extreme ele defence setup that has 90% all resit would be a bit over 100% more damage. which is still quite far off 300% so yeah, maybe thats a fair point when we compare the most extreme phys reduction setups against the most extreme ele resist setups.

+1. for random overwhelms on rares. well i am playing melee :)

and phys taken as sucks. why would you want to completely invalidate one type of mitigation. what does it add to the game ?
plus phys taken as is way to big of a constraint considering there are so few of those mods. oh cool, lightning coil, now i dont get to play all the other cool body armours.
phys taken on my helmet. oh yeah now all other uniques helmets are gone. or other mods on a rare. interesting.

that being said what monster does 30% overwhelms. the one instance I can remember was the crucible unique spider that did 20% I belieave and this was goddam stupid.

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that being said what monster does 30% overwhelms. the one instance I can remember was the crucible unique spider that did 20% I belieave and this was goddam stupid.

Any monster with the Overwhelming modifier has 30% overwhelm

really ? :) good thing i have some range with sunder this league. this is stupid

I am 90% sure that some enemy types have passive overwhelm,

Its just as stupid as that rouge exile that can't miss.

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roundishcap wrote:

I am 90% sure that some enemy types have passive overwhelm,

Its just as stupid as that rouge exile that can't miss.

I cannot find any enemies that have implicit overwhelm ^^ Except in Ancestor league where most Rongokurai had overwhelm.

Only source I know is the mod enemies can get. Also altars and expedition remnants but these I don't have a problem with as they are skippable and meant to be punishing for specific builds.