POE builds are overcomplicated mess.

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dima_dunedin wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

Stop looking at meta builds and all your problems will disappear.

Listen, last time I played I spent 5 minutes fighting one yellow mob. This geniuses introduced extra life (extra means something like 1000%), afixes with ginormous leech, so having 60k dps you constantly locking in ethernal battle with rare mobs.
You have to play meta build now, there is no other options left.

I told to stop looking at meta builds, not to play shit builds. There are like 10 meta builds while there is 100+ other good builds that are not meta. If you are stuggling with ur build, then copy build of someone else who kows the game better. Not everyone build published is "meta".

i always find it amusing when people post stuff like this then make their characters private cus they know full well their build has glaring issues but refuse to fix it cus "reasons" they just want to complain for the sake of complaining

This would be a good time to look to mcu and get with the times. Black girl magic, make it happen.

While I can't tell if the OP is trolling or not, OP does have a point. It's something I've pondered quite often. You can't just pick up an axe and pick a random melee skill and crush everything in front of you. Notice how everyone keeps saying "Play Boneshatter?" (Despite OP even saying he didn't want to hurt himself) You can't do that and get anywhere in maps with something like slam or lacerate.

You can't just pick up a wand and play something classic like a fireball elementalist and expect to get anywhere once you get to maps. You can pick all the logical fire nodes on the skill tree, and still not have enough DPS with your fireballs to get anywhere.

Why though? This works in other ARPGs. Why is POE some weird outlier where commonsense ARPG knowledge gets thrown out the window?
But more to the point, for everyone dunking on the OP, leave your POE bubble, and look at the game as if you haven't played for hundreds or thousands of hours and ask yourself if what is going on makes sense.

And as someone else pointed out, defenses are a drag. You simply need too many to even get a baseline build going, in addition to spell sup, capped resses (max them out if possible!), chill and burning ground immunity etc... Most people also use Grace and Determination, because they get wrecked without them. One prominent YTer even admitted he'd have to get spell suppression capped before red maps from now on. Before red maps... Let that sink in.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love POE, I love options that it gives. But subpar skills need a balance pass, and mobs need to be toned down so players don't feel like they need 7 layers of defenses or more.

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jdp29 wrote:

You can't do that and get anywhere in maps with something like slam or lacerate.

You can't just pick up a wand and play something classic like a fireball elementalist and expect to get anywhere once you get to maps. You can pick all the logical fire nodes on the skill tree, and still not have enough DPS with your fireballs to get anywhere.

Hence a lot of players reach red maps day 1 or two with skills like lacerate, random slam abilities or even fireball even in ssf? Shocking how pretty well possible it is to get something done even with the non meta skills

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jdp29 wrote:

While I can't tell if the OP is trolling or not, OP does have a point. It's something I've pondered quite often. You can't just pick up an axe and pick a random melee skill and crush everything in front of you. Notice how everyone keeps saying "Play Boneshatter?" (Despite OP even saying he didn't want to hurt himself) You can't do that and get anywhere in maps with something like slam or lacerate.

You can't just pick up a wand and play something classic like a fireball elementalist and expect to get anywhere once you get to maps. You can pick all the logical fire nodes on the skill tree, and still not have enough DPS with your fireballs to get anywhere.

Why though? This works in other ARPGs. Why is POE some weird outlier where commonsense ARPG knowledge gets thrown out the window?
But more to the point, for everyone dunking on the OP, leave your POE bubble, and look at the game as if you haven't played for hundreds or thousands of hours and ask yourself if what is going on makes sense.

And as someone else pointed out, defenses are a drag. You simply need too many to even get a baseline build going, in addition to spell sup, capped resses (max them out if possible!), chill and burning ground immunity etc... Most people also use Grace and Determination, because they get wrecked without them. One prominent YTer even admitted he'd have to get spell suppression capped before red maps from now on. Before red maps... Let that sink in.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love POE, I love options that it gives. But subpar skills need a balance pass, and mobs need to be toned down so players don't feel like they need 7 layers of defenses or more.

Whatever supposed options poe build system provides, they all get eaten by one mandatory perk after another. Ironically, other "dumbed down" games let me feel more freedom in shaping my characters than poe does.

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Pashid wrote:

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jdp29 wrote:

You can't do that and get anywhere in maps with something like slam or lacerate.

You can't just pick up a wand and play something classic like a fireball elementalist and expect to get anywhere once you get to maps. You can pick all the logical fire nodes on the skill tree, and still not have enough DPS with your fireballs to get anywhere.

Hence a lot of players reach red maps day 1 or two with skills like lacerate, random slam abilities or even fireball even in ssf? Shocking how pretty well possible it is to get something done even with the non meta skills

Come on, you know you are exaggerating.

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Echothesis wrote:

Come on, you know you are exaggerating.

Just real facts lol

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jdp29 wrote:

While I can't tell if the OP is trolling or not, OP does have a point. It's something I've pondered quite often. You can't just pick up an axe and pick a random melee skill and crush everything in front of you. Notice how everyone keeps saying "Play Boneshatter?" (Despite OP even saying he didn't want to hurt himself) You can't do that and get anywhere in maps with something like slam or lacerate.

You can't just pick up a wand and play something classic like a fireball elementalist and expect to get anywhere once you get to maps. You can pick all the logical fire nodes on the skill tree, and still not have enough DPS with your fireballs to get anywhere.

Why though? This works in other ARPGs.

Spot on. This is deliberate from GGG due to their design choices. Fundamentally for them, the game is about trade. So much power comes about by various items that you need to trade to acquire the ones you need. Or rather, put another way, trade allows players to acquire enormous power so long as they have the currency, so the game must be balanced against that level of power.

The result is that anyone who is not efficient, doesn't like to trade, or doesn't have the requisite knowledge about items, is left well behind.

The game has a huge power creep problem, but it's only really a problem for casual players, or newbies, or those that don't like to engage with trade. You'll almost never drop anything useful to you. Crafting has become a ridiculous investment of RNG and again, those with the means can afford what they want while others get nothing.

Ultimately, PoE is a great textbook example of how design choice in games can have detrimental impacts that were not anticipated and now are not easy to address. I believe it's one of the reasons why PoE 2 is now a separate game altogether, because there's no undoing the problems that PoE now has.

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jdp29 wrote:

You can't just pick up a wand and play something classic like a fireball elementalist and expect to get anywhere once you get to maps. You can pick all the logical fire nodes on the skill tree, and still not have enough DPS with your fireballs to get anywhere.

So to call out this point, yes, you can. I've played all sorts of jank out there, and I've gotten deep red with a plan of "Do fire stuff I guess". Now you might stumble once you get into reds (maybe yellow, depending on how sharp on figuring out items and the details of a build), or find late content like Conqurers or Maven impossible with 'just random fire stuff thrown together'. But you can punch into yellows pretty well with a collection of stuff. Like -JUST- a flameblast templar (with nothing fancy, just cast flameblast, have an Aura) and a balance of damage and survival nodes gets me to maps no problem. And flameblast is not a great skill despite my love for it. Heck I saw someone do a Charged Dash build, and that skill is not a good skill. He was well into yellow (though I'd say he's got a good grasp of it, so maybe I'm cheating my argument some there).

It's not going to breeze through content like a streamers optimized build does, will a pile of skills drop a few portals here and there? Sure absolutely. Will it need ~10 to 15 mintues for a map? For sure. But it'll still do content, though it's going to struggle on the hard points without the player thinking and adjusting some (i.e a Heavy Strike build will find Alvia near impossible without slotting in totems or some other tool that can build up time).

All that said; I do agree with the core point of the OP, even though I immensely disagree with both tone and postion they're coming from, PoE is a mess. It's skills are a mess, its gear is a mess, its UI is a mess, and it's visual clarity is a mess. But I'd have it no other way.

As to your question to 'Why' is PoE like this (at least why in your opinion you cannot succeed with a 'pile of stuff') while other ARPG's you can just blindly take whatever you want and win. While A, you can't. TL2, you'd get wreckked by just taking whatever is laying around without a mild game plan. Ever try D2 with a 'Only Fire ever' Sorceress? Nightmare and Hell will have mobs you cannot kill (including several bosses, the gate bosses for Diablo himself has the full spectrum of elemental immunites, if you don't have 2 different elements, or VERY large resistance reducers (i.e cold mastery) you cannot damage those mini-bosses. BL2 (while a bit further from the forumla being an FPS) had end game bosses in which slag swapping was manditory, and several weapons where often considered 100% required to kill them in under 15 minutes.

These things exist in every ARPG (and honestly most games, at least when optimization is being discussed). It's a lot more apparent in PoE because this games skills and interactions are MASSIVELY larger than any other games. Even accounting for EVERY premutation of skills in D2, you wouldn't even hit 5% of the options PoE could offer between Passive and Skill Gem allocations (and that's not even considering the wierd world of some of the gear). And PoE treats the player diffenently. Most games want the player to win, they want to make sure you don't lose, and are pushed into winning no matter what you do. PoE will only offer you the cold indiffernece of "Try it again". Like Dark Souls, it feels brutal, because unlike other games, it generally treats the player fairly and evenly with its monsters. Its just that players are so used to being treated unfairly in their advantage, that it warps their view of what 'fair' is. Note; Fair and Fun are two very different things, it's okay to want a game to mechanically give you an edge because you just wanna chill and feel cool. But PoE isn't that game.