PSA: Gold

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Walltrigger wrote:

Its just a bad system.

We don't know what the entire system is yet. We only know bits and pieces of it. Hard to pass judgment on the system as a whole from a partial view of a single sub-piece of it.

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Walltrigger wrote:

Also makes zero sense thematically to have monsters drop gold...

That's your objection? A random angry Capuchin monkey can drop a full suit of platemail, a halberd, three enchanted wands, and an extremely rare treasure orb that can alter matter and magic at the fundamental level and that's totally fine, but it dropping a small pile of coins is Immersion breaking?

Nah. Invalid response. "Drops" in general make no damn lore sense whatsoever, but it's the way ARPGs work so we all just accept that the three hundredth random sluyg monster we kill in the depths of the howling wilderness somehow has the highly potent magical armor we've been hoping for stuffed in its spleen for whatever reason.

Gold sucks plain and simple. It's implementation just makes sure you have a hard time getting any upgrades(at least in acts). If it is anything like it was in the Ruthless with gold event you just start trying to not pick it up because its clogging up your inventory. Once you fill those slots at the bottom of your currency tab with gold you have more than you want, yet it keeps dropping and auto picking up for you.

Gold is auto-pickup, but crafting orbs are not. Interesting priority. =0[.]o=

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1453R wrote:

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Walltrigger wrote:

Its just a bad system.

We don't know what the entire system is yet. We only know bits and pieces of it. Hard to pass judgment on the system as a whole from a partial view of a single sub-piece of it.

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Walltrigger wrote:

Also makes zero sense thematically to have monsters drop gold...

That's your objection? A random angry Capuchin monkey can drop a full suit of platemail, a halberd, three enchanted wands, and an extremely rare treasure orb that can alter matter and magic at the fundamental level and that's totally fine, but it dropping a small pile of coins is Immersion breaking?

Nah. Invalid response. "Drops" in general make no damn lore sense whatsoever, but it's the way ARPGs work so we all just accept that the three hundredth random sluyg monster we kill in the depths of the howling wilderness somehow has the highly potent magical armor we've been hoping for stuffed in its spleen for whatever reason.

Ah yes its very hard to pass judgment about a system present in pretty much every other arpg...

When did I say item drops make sense? I literally said they are more problematic than currency. This also applies to immersion but what do you want to have instead? All items are store bought and every monster carries a coin purse for whatever reason?

I think gold quickly becomes useless for the average PoE player, depending on how the gambling mechanic turns out.

But gold is first and foremost something you use while leveling. They've buffed the vendors, and that's where your gold goes. And as a system meant for leveling, I think it's an OK system. Easy to understand, easy to learn and intuitive for both new and old players.

You still have your typical PoE currency for trading with other players. I'm sure 1453R covered this in the OP, without reading everything.

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Proxava wrote:

1.) The reason why we need loot explosions and tons of loot is the amount of trash items and mods there exists that are not useful for your build. Reducing the amount of loot and introducing gold just gives me nightmares from the ruthless with gold time.

I will call this a very bad take - what we consider now a bad loot, was few years ago a mirror tier stuff. Like triple t1 resists + t1 life was 9/10 or even 10/10. Now it is barely 4/10, so a trash item, a great item now is double influenced, double corrupted with elevated mods on a perfect base. So a good item would be double influenced with two high tier influenced mods - if that would be our minimum drop - how fast would it be considered as a trash loot? even if we would get 5 items per map, a week maybe? The moment we get better items, the current average ones become bad ones and good ones turn to average - it is an endless cycle of power creep.
Perfect example is Diablo 3 - when they added ancient legendary items, anything less was a trash, noone picked it.

I would rather have GGG nerf drop rate, from 10 000 items per map (with 10 so-called good items) to 1 000 items (with 1 so-called good item) keeping current items mods tier balance. But gutting drop rate will make people who are "faint of heart" to rage and cry, and we will have a flood of tears here and on reddit (not that we don't have it already, even if someone don't get a divine orb while leveling).

Dumb loot, like Diablo have, would kill this game for me entirely. I may not have a use for +2 amulet right now, but I may need it in the future, or my other build, or a friend, or a guild mate. I don't want for a game to think for me what I need or don't need, or what build should I play and be forced to get items for it.

So overall I will give gold a shot - if it is something used for leveling and gamble - great. I don't think it will be used for trading. Could it be better named - maybe. But if gold will be in such quantities as in diablo where it is useless - I will have problem with it.

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Northern_Ronin wrote:

Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Torchlight 2, Grim Dawn. All EXTREMELY successful and popular ARPGs, all use gold. This is a frankly aburde statement that bascially translates to "PoE1 is the only good ARPG that exists." which is ignorante and elitist in the extreme.

Kind of true, i agree. However it's not the gold that made them successful. It rather seems that the gold is the fun-destroying factor of those games. I mean look at the Diablo series, Diablo 3's gold system is completely broken, and don't ask me about Diablo 4, no clue whats going on there, I don't want to know it. But it can't be good.

Won't quote your statement on the value of gold thing. Just look it's current price. And it'll grow, because it's a very unique metal, and it's shiny, people will always love it, use is overrated anyway. In the poe2 demos the gold wasn't very shiny. Pretty much the opposite of what it is in reality.

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sevens67 wrote:

There is no crafting bench

Another reason to hate poe2. Removal of the most important mechanic in poe?

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1453R wrote:

Never occured to you that they might be, I dunno...fixing the drop system? All four of them said they'd already reviewed the mod pool for all items and made necessary adjustments. As for finding items that aren't useful to your build? Welcome to ARPGs, people have been finding wrong-build items since Diablows the First.

If they indeed plan to 'smallen' the modpool, then the game will become more and more like one of those stupid Diablos. The reason I, and so many others, love poe is it's compelxity and the huge modpools.

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1453R wrote:

Good thing they're not getting rid of crafting currency then. Well, not getting rid of all crafting currency. They're definitely changing direction in crafting and I'm curious to see where they're gonna go; the lack of alts or scours was a definite "wooof" moment for me (how the bloody hell are you supposed to craft/roll your flasks?), but unlike some people I'm not going to assume the entire world is exploding because I can't see what their solution to a given issue is. Give 'em some time, let's see what they're doing with crafting in the next game instead of assuming, hm?

Not sure, but it seems that the man, aka Chris Wilson, is no longer the guy in charge. He is just there to show off, but I don't think he designs the game anymore. And this team that was talking yesterday didn't seem very confident in what they were explainin. I don't trust them, I believe they're going to destroy the game. So no, I don't want to see, what they come up with. They have to listen now to the community, and we have to say: "No gold, more loot." I still miss pre 3.16 times, where we actually dropped stuff from league-mechanics (with the massive quantity modifiers to league-mechanics). Now you have to pray and hope to drop random divine altars.

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1453R wrote:

that we can't roll/modify no-go mods off our maps anymore

Another bad decision. Forcing us to go to trade, spend hours to buy the right maps, and basically ruining ssf.

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1453R wrote:

Man, so many people in this game were apparently molested by Ruthless. The amount of sheer butthurt I've seen over "It's Ruthless! RUTHLESS! FORCED RUTHLESS!" is idiotic. Y'all need to chill. They dun said years ago, before PoE2 even, that they'd like to reduce the sheer glut of pointless items they know nobody picks up and get people to care about drops more. They would like for players to actually desire to pick rares up off the ground and see if they're any good, and for them to do so they'd need to make it such that a single boss doesn't drop sixty rare items you need to filter away.

As for gold being completely useless or an integral part of the game? Well, clearly it's both. Jonathan himself said that players trading in gold would be like players trading in Wisdom scrolls - nobody's gonna do it outside huge bulk sales for things like item gambling. You'll find enough gold to handle your needs for gold yourself, but the presence of gold allows them a lot of design space to make vendors more interesting. I'd much rather deal with gold than have vendors require untold countless stacks of wisdom scrolls for everything, that just makes no bloody sense. Why the hell would some goober in town give frog one about Wis scrolls when they've probably never seen an unidentified item in their life? Some good, solid coin they can trade to whoever is selling the food they put on their family table, though? That makes plenty of sense to be getting on with.

Have you ever played ruthless? What is your highest-lvl character in ruthless? I played ruthless-with-gold all the way to lvl 70 or something. And while it was challenging and interesting, all it did in the end, was making me want to uninstall. I want to zoom, pop, loot, forget about the annoying reality and life for a second and have fun. Ruthless is just a boring copy of reality. Current PoE, and even more Pre-PoE3.16, was exactly what we needed and what was cool and great, with all those pops and bangs. Ruthless is hell, and poe2 seems to become ruthless.

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sevens67 wrote:

Gold sucks plain and simple. It's implementation just makes sure you have a hard time getting any upgrades(at least in acts). If it is anything like it was in the Ruthless with gold event you just start trying to not pick it up because its clogging up your inventory. Once you fill those slots at the bottom of your currency tab with gold you have more than you want, yet it keeps dropping and auto picking up for you.

Precisely. Removing sockets from items is the right way to go. But at the same time removing drops and giving us trash gold is bombing us back to stone age.

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Raycheetah wrote:

Gold is auto-pickup, but crafting orbs are not. Interesting priority. =0[.]o=

Shows once more, that something wrong is going on behind the scences. I don't trust the current devs of poe2.

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Phrazz wrote:

But gold is first and foremost something you use while leveling. They've buffed the vendors, and that's where your gold goes. And as a system meant for leveling, I think it's an OK system. Easy to understand, easy to learn and intuitive for both new and old players.

And guess what, it'll keep dropping. Replacing all your juicy drops. Even if they're smart enough to disable the auto-pick-up, you're still seeing less drops for useless gold.

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Nomancs wrote:

I would rather have GGG nerf drop rate, from 10 000 items per map (with 10 so-called good items) to 1 000 items (with 1 so-called good item) keeping current items mods tier balance. But gutting drop rate will make people who are "faint of heart" to rage and cry, and we will have a flood of tears here and on reddit (not that we don't have it already, even if someone don't get a divine orb while leveling).

And yet you completed all 40 challenges in SOFTCORE CRUCIBLE, while you could have played ruthless and enjoyed your vision of no loot. You really don't need to wait, you can go now and play it, you can even quit softcore forever and start your amazing ruthless experience.

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Nomancs wrote:

So overall I will give gold a shot - if it is something used for leveling and gamble - great. I don't think it will be used for trading. Could it be better named - maybe. But if gold will be in such quantities as in diablo where it is useless - I will have problem with it.

The introduction of gold in poe2 hints at the root of the problem. They want to make the game simpler. Simplyfing will yield them more players over the short run, potentially also those who'll pay. But in the long run, it'll turn off all of us, who truly love the game, and pay for its quality. As others have mentioned, they are going to remove substantial crafting parts of the game (bench+important crafting currency). And they basically just replace it with gold, which is pretty similar to the ruthless-with-gold event. While the gold itself may seem harmless, it is actually directly pointing into the doom of the whole game.

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Proxava wrote:

...
I want to zoom, pop, loot, forget about the annoying reality and life for a second and have fun.
...

And this is the crux of the current forum fire right here.

You assume this is the way everybody has fun. That EVERYBODY wants Path of Exile to be a completely pointless skill-not-required knowledge-not-required Cookie Clicker nonsense game where literally the only thing that matters is knowing the magical secrets to generating currency from the aether. Either the game is a chore because you've got shit gear and every monster out-regens your damage or the game is a snore because you're geared to the point where you cannot die in an instance and the entire game is just "click randomly on the screen until my loot filter tells me I Win."

This is not, in fact, how everybody has fun. Some people are looking for exactly the soprt of badass stylish Cool Shit Grinding Gear is displaying in PoE2. And the cool part is that they don't have to please the Cookie Clicker Religion of Zoom crowd that hates actually engaging with a game. Y'all already have your game. Path 1 isn't going anywhere, and it will remain the same game it is right now - a noble, valiant attempt at a deep, strategic and engaging ARPG that's been utterly ruined by out-of-control power creep and scaling.

And every time I hear "BURR HURR go play Ruthless if you want this kinda garbage PoE1 is for the Religion of Zoom!", I now have a response: "BURR HURR go play Path 1, PoE2 is for the Action Gameplay Enjoyer!"

You. Got. Yours.. Let us have ours.

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Proxava wrote:

And guess what, it'll keep dropping. Replacing all your juicy drops. Even if they're smart enough to disable the auto-pick-up, you're still seeing less drops for useless gold.

This is of course pessimistic speculation.

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Proxava wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

I would rather have GGG nerf drop rate, from 10 000 items per map (with 10 so-called good items) to 1 000 items (with 1 so-called good item) keeping current items mods tier balance. But gutting drop rate will make people who are "faint of heart" to rage and cry, and we will have a flood of tears here and on reddit (not that we don't have it already, even if someone don't get a divine orb while leveling).

And yet you completed all 40 challenges in SOFTCORE CRUCIBLE, while you could have played ruthless and enjoyed your vision of no loot. You really don't need to wait, you can go now and play it, you can even quit softcore forever and start your amazing ruthless experience.

I will tell you a secret - as you point out I got "all 40 challenges in SOFTCORE CRUCIBLE" maybe, MAYBE... and hear me now... because I enjoy the game as it is now? And I would RATHER have less loot than "no brainer Best in Slot all the time loot".
Sorry for playing however I want, seems like it is an issue for you.

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Proxava wrote:

While the gold itself may seem harmless, it is actually directly pointing into the doom of the whole game.

True problem and doom of the whole game will be guy named Peter, he will trip on 5th October 2024 and spill his coffe causing fire, all game files will be lost. - source: trust me bro

I will tell you one last secret - it is just a game. Hoho*!


*this "hoho" was officialy approved by "hoho" movement author, xPiranha