"On hit" and "On hit with this weapon"

Problem: Another poorly made tooltip. This time on our beloved Mjolner. This way said, all hits (spells, thrown traps/mines, anything - even not remotely related to actual hits with the hammer..) should trigger the spells socketed inside:



While, on the other hand we have a properly described Cospri and the experimental daggers which specifically say that you must hit in melee with the weapon itself to trigger the spells:







It has been like this for years and nobody cared to fix the tooltip. It is confusing, especially for new players and most of all does not follow the default terminology in the game. Please fix.

Local and global modifiers on weapons are generally confusing for new players (and not only).
Among these 3, I personally dislike only Cospri's one.

Trigger a Socketed Cold Spell on Melee Critical Strike, with a 0.25 second Cooldown
I think it should be either "on Critical Strike" (the mod is on weapon, so it implies local crits) or "on Critical Strike with this Weapon" (to be more clear).

Currently it specifies "on Melee Critical Strike", but:
If this crit condition is local to the weapon, it doesn't make sence, since you can't deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's (or with any melee weapon) -> so this crit condition is global, like you can crit with another weapon (dual wielding) and it triggers the effect? No. This "melee" is adding confusion here.

Anyways the discussion is outside the scope of the bug report section.

upd. Wrong reasoning, see below ↓↓↓

Uh-oh, I actually screwed up.

"

Currently it specifies "on Melee Critical Strike", but:
If this crit condition is local to the weapon, it doesn't make sence, since you can't deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's (or with any melee weapon)

You can deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's. Skills like Molten Strike that have a non-melee component allows that. As well as ST and steel skills, which are not melee but require a melee weapon. So the wording makes good sense.

"

MonaHuna wrote:

Uh-oh, I actually screwed up.

"

Currently it specifies "on Melee Critical Strike", but:
If this crit condition is local to the weapon, it doesn't make sence, since you can't deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's (or with any melee weapon)

You can deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's. Skills like Molten Strike that have a non-melee component allows that. As well as ST and steel skills, which are not melee but require a melee weapon. So the wording makes good sense.

Idk why every time I post a bug report, someone comes up to contradict something so obvious with so insignificant reasons sucked from under their nails.

The wording in Mjolner is absolutely global - meaning that socketed spells should proc from literally any hit.
It should proc from any Attacks that you perform or Spell you cast. Including from Mines, Traps, Totems. I won't even go into detail why global mods should also affect minions. And if you're shooting some slow enough projectiles, a single projectile should be even able to proc a socketed spell more than once after some chain/fork/split/return/whatever.

I beg GGG to improve their tooltip management.

"

fostaa wrote:

"

MonaHuna wrote:

Uh-oh, I actually screwed up.

"

Currently it specifies "on Melee Critical Strike", but:
If this crit condition is local to the weapon, it doesn't make sence, since you can't deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's (or with any melee weapon)

You can deal a non-melee crit attacking with Cospri's. Skills like Molten Strike that have a non-melee component allows that. As well as ST and steel skills, which are not melee but require a melee weapon. So the wording makes good sense.

Idk why every time I post a bug report, someone comes up to contradict something so obvious with so insignificant reasons sucked from under their nails.

The wording in Mjolner is absolutely global - meaning that socketed spells should proc from literally any hit.
It should proc from any Attacks that you perform or Spell you cast. Including from Mines, Traps, Totems. I won't even go into detail why global mods should also affect minions. And if you're shooting some slow enough projectiles, a single projectile should be even able to proc a socketed spell more than once after some chain/fork/split/return/whatever.

I beg GGG to improve their tooltip management.

when it comes to weapons a modifier is local if it can be local.

this isn't a bug, and yes these modifiers could use some clarity... but that is feedback/suggestions material.

Any modifier on a weapon is, by default, a local mod. Unless it CAN'T be a local mod. I think someone else said this as well.

It is the only gear slot where this is the case, with the exception of basic armour/es/evasion mods on all other gear.


See this example:
+ #-# flat damage: on a WEAPON this is a local mod, but the exact same wording on any other piece of gear is global. Because the default for a weapon is local mods.



The only reason Cospri requires the qualifier "melee" is because we aren't talking about hits, but rather critical strikes. Whereas "critical strike chance" is local on weapons, critical strikes in general are a global phenomenon and as such need the "melee" qualifier to limit cospri effect to weapon attacks.

"

fostaa wrote:

Idk why every time I post a bug report, someone comes up to contradict something so obvious with so insignificant reasons sucked from under their nails.

Idk why you quote me, I mainly commented on Cospri's wording was not cool, but later fixed myself. You also used Cospri's wording as an example of correct wording, so we agree on that. I didn't even touch the Mjolnier's wording which you reported as a bug.

But I can answer your question. I've seen your "Marks on Hit" report as well and unless you're trolling, I'd recommend you to change your behaviour to something much less entitled. To claim so loudly about bugs you should have good understanding of mechanics, wording and wide background knowledge. Instead, you don't even understand what a bug is, and demand changes to intended stuff.

"

fostaa wrote:

The wording in Mjolner is absolutely global - meaning that socketed spells should proc from literally any hit.
It should proc from any Attacks that you perform or Spell you cast. Including from Mines, Traps, Totems. I won't even go into detail why global mods should also affect minions.

Maybe in another game but definitely not in PoE.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

The only reason Cospri requires the qualifier "melee" is because we aren't talking about hits, but rather critical strikes. Whereas "critical strike chance" is local on weapons, critical strikes in general are a global phenomenon and as such need the "melee" qualifier to limit cospri effect to weapon attacks.

"Melee" here is to restrict Cospri from working with skills I was mentioning earlier (Steel skills, etc), it is a local mod with or without "melee". If it was a global mod limited to melee crits, it would work with another weapon crits while dual wielding.

I've checked enough on-crit mods and yes, for a reason I don't follow, weapon's hits and crits are treated differently in terms of local/global. There're still exceptions though
% chance to cause Bleeding on Critical Strike
% chance to cause Poison on Critical Strike
(from Goredrill / Mark of the Doubting Knight / Kondo's Pride)
which are local. As well as Cospri's mod.

In the process, I noticed that Blind related weapon mods are probably most confusing, here they are:
% chance to Blind Enemies on hit
% chance to Blind Enemies on Critical Strike - global 'cause of crit
% Global chance to Blind Enemies on hit
% chance to Blind Enemies on Hit with Attacks
Do we need such variety of them? Also "hit" is sometimes capitalised and sometimes not lol.

@MonaHuna: Entitled? I hoped you'd see that I am only stating the obvious. And for the actually entitled here, since you forgot the reason of this post - I am only appealing for a better description of game features in tooltips. This is the player's main source of knowledge before 'testing' anything so that they get more experienced. Also, the Wiki is made by players, taken by GGG eventually (and still not fully reliable anyway).
I am not discussing mechanics in this topic, MonaHuna.
There's enough proof for what I intended to bring to your attention.
I leave the tooltip fixing to GGG.

Honestly ggg should Clearly label local and global mods with (global) and ( this item) because it gets real confusing.

Again it has no bug here.......


all on hit on weapon are local unless otherwise stated (like someone else complained on gain life on hit mods)


Cospri is not only on hit, it has to be specify to be crit, so that it is a local mod plus a condition: "crit", aka a subset of the general on hit mod

The stat id behind the fabricated mod text indicated clearly it is local: "local_unique_cast_socketed_cold_skills_on_melee_critical_strike"

(so did Mjölner: local_unique_attacks_cast_socketed_lightning_spells_%)


The only thing legit is the last example, which experimental basetype seems like to state like "Trigger Level 10 Fiery Impact on Melee Hit with this Weapon" to avoid too shorten to make an impression of offhand hit also trigger the skill in main hand (or vice versa), but experienced players knew it is always local unless clearly have the word "global"

If you want to open the book of worm, All weapon poison mod does not state global nor "with this weapon", but well all knew it is still local.....