Diablo 4 announces that there will be a campaign skip ... its time for POE to do the same

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CAPSLOCK_ON wrote:

don't even reply to me saying it's somehow bad

It's somehow bad.

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Any other explanation on shattering their concurrency record by well over 20% with Crucible? Id love to hear this.

Surprising you chose to reply to that sentence... But no, and neither do you. What you have, is speculation, not an explanation. You may be right, you may be wrong, but there's nothing I can say here, you'll still be convinced it's the only plausible reason.

Never said it was the only plausible reason. I wanted to hear the other ones in fact. Still waiting...

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Never said it was the only plausible reason. I wanted to hear the other ones in fact. Still waiting...

But I did answer "no" (as in "I don't have any"). What are you waiting for?

I don't really see why people would jump to PoE because of "D4 draught", and not D3? As I also wrote, it would only be speculation, just like you are doing. I'm sure it's part of the reason, but the explanation? Not buying that.

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Never said it was the only plausible reason. I wanted to hear the other ones in fact. Still waiting...

But I did answer "no" (as in "I don't have any"). What are you waiting for?

I don't really see why people would jump to PoE because of "D4 draught", and not D3? As I also wrote, it would only be speculation, just like you are doing. I'm sure it's part of the reason, but the explanation? Not buying that.

Right, so if you are not buying it, what are the other parts of the reason? If Im merely speculating, what are the other speculations on the massive increase? The logic around D4 seems solid, but Im willing to hear what else might be a plausible scenario. Im happy to hear / discuss, but I've not seen a single other explanation or factor.

Edit: Basically why is Crucible doing so well?

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innervation wrote:

Diablo IV doing something should be irrelevant to whether or not PoE should do something.

Couldn't agree more.

Not saying I like to do the story every time I want to make a new char in a league, because I don't, but a game from a company that is not even a shadow of what it once was is not a parameter for anything. Those people who inspired POE's creators are long gone.

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bauermayers wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Diablo IV doing something should be irrelevant to whether or not PoE should do something.

Couldn't agree more.

Not saying I like to do the story every time I want to make a new char in a league, because I don't, but a game from a company that is not even a shadow of what it once was is not a parameter for anything. Those people who inspired POE's creators are long gone.

when they do something that should be standard in this type of games then it's very relevant to poe

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CAPSLOCK_ON wrote:

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bauermayers wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Diablo IV doing something should be irrelevant to whether or not PoE should do something.

Couldn't agree more.

Not saying I like to do the story every time I want to make a new char in a league, because I don't, but a game from a company that is not even a shadow of what it once was is not a parameter for anything. Those people who inspired POE's creators are long gone.

when they do something that should be standard in this type of games then it's very relevant to poe

Too bad, I'd like to see some form of story skip but the thing is what Blizzard is doing is nothing new since you can also story skip in D3 and that never influenced POE to do the same. Also, these devs have a reputation for being really stubborn when it comes to their design choices, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

PoE isn't designed with a casual player in mind, so why market to them?

And of course PoE is designed with casuals in mind.

Ignoring the long-running official tagline that basically ran 'Path of Exile is the hardcore ARPG you've been waiting for', here are some excerpts from the game's current overview page that I feel contradicts that.

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Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. It is designed around a strong online item economy, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races.

'strong online item economy' = you will need to engage with strangers on the internet using some form of aggressive trade system if you want to get by

"deep character customisation" = you'll probably need to use a third party character builder, probably keep a spreadsheet handy, and struggle if you just play 'on the fly'

"competitive PVP and ladder races" = we are aiming at people who like to win against others; 'competitive' is kind of the opposite of 'casual' (lol at the PVP but just roll with it)

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We're sick of the recent trend towards bright, cartoony RPGs. The art style we chose for Path of Exile is dark, gritty and realistic. Wraeclast is terrifying, and we've tried hard to do it justice.

Normally the art style wouldn't qualify but in combination with the above, the entire vibe of this description is 'this game is proud of its punitive nature'.

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We have carefully constructed our item system for veterans of the best Action RPGs.

Again, 'veteran' is not 'casual'.

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players can enter ... leagues to show off their mastery of the game and compete to win valuable prizes.

There's that word again: compete.

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Admittedly, that's a pretty outdated page but I don't believe any of those sentiments have been abandoned by GGG's design vision. Sure, mtxes have sort of defied that 'gritty' aesthetic line but keep in mind GGG were taking aim at a specific game when they wrote that, and that game remains far, far more cartoony in appearance than PoE even now.

So there's my evidence that PoE is not designed with casuals in mind. I could present a lot more looking at the actual game itself but I figured starting with the ostensible intentions of the designers would be less open to subjective scrutiny.

Your response, sir?

There is casual (someone in a retirement home who played with a wii-mote for 15 minutes and used to play candy crush on their phone but forgot where to find the app).

Then there is casual 2 hours a week.

Then again there is casual... you get where this is going. Phrazz can speak for himself but I read it as 'designed for the casual segment of their current playerbase'. Which may or may not be a useful blanket statement. They seem happy to try to design for both simultaneously. The 1 character per league player, the 3 character in a month player, the full time player, etc.

But what I want to go back to is the page 8 post

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So why is the mode Exiles actually enjoy playing locked behind a long, convoluted and frankly unengaging story for every single character when the whole supposed point of PoE is trying lots of different characters?

It makes zero sense. It made zero sense way back in 2013 when plenty of us were already calling for alternate ways to level characters.

Why not then? You know the answer as well as I. Because they don't have to do otherwise. They've convinced you this 'good enough' is good enough.

This came in the same post that acknowledged they are spending real dev time making a second campaign, so this doesn't add up.

'they don't have to do otherwise' implies they're saving resources by not doing it.

but we know they're spending resources doubling down on it.

Imo they like a campaign for the same reason regrets are rarer than Chaos Orbs and respecs aren't free. It keeps your mental tied to the character. It makes you feel invested. It maintains the pace of your growth arc. It reinforces your thrill of your character 'clicking' and laying waste to mobs when juxtaposed with you corpse running Tukohama or Shavrone b/c you didn't sort out your resistances in A6.

I know that they are aware of community feedback on this. Chris has said that they know it and as per their usual they will not be taking the community advice on how to address it. They're just going to make the campaign fun to replay. Easy as :)

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Your response, sir?

My response? I think you're not reading enough into "in mind". Is most of the game designed for them? Maybe not. Do this 'economy' you're talking about need them? I would probably say yes.

And bringing up PvP ladders and races, where probably 0.0001% of the player base cares enough to even offer it a glance, is probably not the argument to use here, is it?

Maybe this hole debacle comes down to how we define 'casual'? Or is that a set term? I've always considered me a casual player, playing when I have the time between job, family, other hobbies and chores. Am I a 'veteran' in the ARPG scene? Sure. Have I ever played any of them PvP or cared about a ladder? Never. Have I ever raced? No.

I think most 'hardcore games' can be enjoyed by casuals, and I think most 'hardcore games' have systems in place for casual players in mind. PoE doesn't have many, but it has some.