How is GGG doing financially

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anti4z500 wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

Out of curiosity, I looked up the revenue for past years.

2018: 72.4 mil
2019: 99.2 mil
2020: 113.4 mil
2021: 104.9 mil
2022: 83.7 mil

2018 Blizzcon netted GGG more money than covid.

It's interesting how tied up PoE is to Diablo. The disappointing D:I announcement led to a massive influx of players to PoE.

Now, D4 is coming. If it's great, then it might drain players from PoE like nothing else.

But if D4 endgame turns out to be bad, then 3.22 will be the biggest league in PoE's history.

D4 opens beta in like 3 or 4 weeks so nex league will have a big dip in player numbers

The beta gets wiped afterwards, and I would almost bet that most people who are hardcore enough to seriously play the D4 beta are also hardcore enough to make time for 3.21

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Xyel wrote:

The beta gets wiped afterwards, and I would almost bet that most people who are hardcore enough to seriously play the D4 beta are also hardcore enough to make time for 3.21

That's not generally how it works. If a player likes D4 (Even as a fling), they'll likely JUST play it for however long it holds their interest. it's hard for a lot of players to find the headspace for two similar games that fix the same itch. Obviously it'll depend both if the D4 launch is smooth, if the basic game is 'fun' to those who try it (and who play PoE), and if it's got any longeivity to its end game.

Like some players (like me) who just won't give blizzard the time of day after Reforged, Immortal (and for me even D3 soured it), not counting those just morally ignoring blizzard after their circus of abuses.

It also depends if playing in the beta gives good or bad press to the game, I know there's a ton of blizzard fans still pretty gunshy about their recent releases, so a blast of bad initial reactions in the beta could diminish player interest in it. Not so much I don't doubt they'll make their money back, but might keep PoE numbers from dipping as bad. It's hard to say for me, in part that like I said, I don't even care enough to keep up to date on D4 stuff, so I can't even say if it looks good or bad.

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Northern_Ronin wrote:

That's not generally how it works. If a player likes D4 (Even as a fling), they'll likely JUST play it for however long it holds their interest. it's hard for a lot of players to find the headspace for two similar games that fix the same itch. Obviously it'll depend both if the D4 launch is smooth, if the basic game is 'fun' to those who try it (and who play PoE), and if it's got any longeivity to its end game.

Not really, because:
A) Anyone not-hardcore won't even know there's a beta
B) A lot of people play for longer-term progression/goals, so a beta that will get wiped holds zero interest to them (I'm in this camp)
C) Another whole lot of people aren't willing to be an unpaid tester for a game, no matter which one.

With groups A - C gone from the pool, it's very unlikely D4 beta will have any impact on 3.21. Sure, it'll be up on twitch for a day, but three days in that'll be gone, especially if there's something else.

The longevity of the endgame / the quality of the league system in D4 is imo all that matters - what makes PoE so great are the league cycle and the endgame depth. If D4 doesn't have pretty much the same thing, then it won't do anything to PoE.

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Xyel wrote:

Not really, because:
A) Anyone not-hardcore won't even know there's a beta
B) A lot of people play for longer-term progression/goals, so a beta that will get wiped holds zero interest to them (I'm in this camp)
C) Another whole lot of people aren't willing to be an unpaid tester for a game, no matter which one.

Lol yeah I'm sure the D4 beta numbers will be disappointing.

In fact for your comment in bullet point A, I'd wager the beta numbers will be higher than any legaue GGG has ever had.

I also find B funny considering there is no long term progression in PoE either in legaue play. It's a 3 month wipe every time.

And lastly, for C, we have been unpaid testers for GGG for 10 years lol.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

Not really, because:
A) Anyone not-hardcore won't even know there's a beta
B) A lot of people play for longer-term progression/goals, so a beta that will get wiped holds zero interest to them (I'm in this camp)
C) Another whole lot of people aren't willing to be an unpaid tester for a game, no matter which one.

Lol yeah I'm sure the D4 beta numbers will be disappointing.

In fact for your comment in bullet point A, I'd wager the beta numbers will be higher than any legaue GGG has ever had.

I also find B funny considering there is no long term progression in PoE either in legaue play. It's a 3 month wipe every time.

And lastly, for C, we have been unpaid testers for GGG for 10 years lol.

I will try to remember this and check back on this in two and then three weeks..

And there is permanent progression in PoE - my Ritualist hideout has been with me every league for over two years now.

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Xyel wrote:

Not really, because:
A) Anyone not-hardcore won't even know there's a beta
B) A lot of people play for longer-term progression/goals, so a beta that will get wiped holds zero interest to them (I'm in this camp)
C) Another whole lot of people aren't willing to be an unpaid tester for a game, no matter which one.

With groups A - C gone from the pool, it's very unlikely D4 beta will have any impact on 3.21. Sure, it'll be up on twitch for a day, but three days in that'll be gone, especially if there's something else.

The longevity of the endgame / the quality of the league system in D4 is imo all that matters - what makes PoE so great are the league cycle and the endgame depth. If D4 doesn't have pretty much the same thing, then it won't do anything to PoE.

I think you really misunderstand how betas are treated culturally these days. Long gone are the glory days when a beta was just that, particularly out of a AAA brand (or perhaps I should say, what was a AAA). Beta is just modern slang for 'this is the launch', because a beta doesn't actually matter anymore because of the prevlience of post launch patching that's just down right normal and expected of every game. The beta IS the launch, its when people will form their opinions about the game and when the buzz about it will be the highest. Even post actual release, they won't have nearly as much hype as the 'Beta' because again, the beta is the long.

Also people who play for progression also play in leagues, that always reset. That's been the D3 model since Reaper basically (i.e the point D3 started being playable to a lot of their playerbase). And basically the entire market is willing to be unpaid testers. There's a minority that object to it, but trust me, any market suggestion any majoirity of players are unwilling to be in a beta because it is a beta, is pure insanity by proven track records by the numbers.

Lastly as to point A, you've got a pretty soft definition of Hardcore. To me a hardcore player is someone who spends 20+hours a week in a game, and spends extra time diving into the machinery of the game (i.e updating wikis, or at least doing study on their own using said wikis or other testing methods to optimize some sphere of the game). Anyone interested in D4 (heck anyone interested in Diablo in the general) will know there's a beta. I AVOID Blizzard news and know there's a beta.

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Northern_Ronin wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

Not really, because:
A) Anyone not-hardcore won't even know there's a beta
B) A lot of people play for longer-term progression/goals, so a beta that will get wiped holds zero interest to them (I'm in this camp)
C) Another whole lot of people aren't willing to be an unpaid tester for a game, no matter which one.

With groups A - C gone from the pool, it's very unlikely D4 beta will have any impact on 3.21. Sure, it'll be up on twitch for a day, but three days in that'll be gone, especially if there's something else.

The longevity of the endgame / the quality of the league system in D4 is imo all that matters - what makes PoE so great are the league cycle and the endgame depth. If D4 doesn't have pretty much the same thing, then it won't do anything to PoE.

I think you really misunderstand how betas are treated culturally these days. Long gone are the glory days when a beta was just that, particularly out of a AAA brand (or perhaps I should say, what was a AAA). Beta is just modern slang for 'this is the launch', because a beta doesn't actually matter anymore because of the prevlience of post launch patching that's just down right normal and expected of every game. The beta IS the launch, its when people will form their opinions about the game and when the buzz about it will be the highest. Even post actual release, they won't have nearly as much hype as the 'Beta' because again, the beta is the long.

Well, let's look at the case of Lost Ark:


The beta was the size of about 12% of the launch.

It was similar for New World.

A 3-day beta is really not comparable to the launch...

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innervation wrote:

Have you considered Chris' statements on Baeclast #75 before writing this?

Starting a little early for context:

https://youtu.be/88N4s2qxRIM?t=5039

More specific to this thread (its only a couple minutes after the first):

https://youtu.be/88N4s2qxRIM?t=5172

I did reference that podcast in the disclaimer. I don't see any contradictions to my original post - is there something specific in the podcast that bothers you?

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Xyel wrote:

Out of curiosity, I looked up the revenue for past years.

2018: 72.4 mil
2019: 99.2 mil
2020: 113.4 mil
2021: 104.9 mil
2022: 83.7 mil

2018 Blizzcon netted GGG more money than covid.

It's interesting how tied up PoE is to Diablo. The disappointing D:I announcement led to a massive influx of players to PoE.

Now, D4 is coming. If it's great, then it might drain players from PoE like nothing else.

But if D4 endgame turns out to be bad, then 3.22 will be the biggest league in PoE's history.

If you're trying to correlate PoE players' spend ($$) on MTX with the timing of other title releases and major content updates (like DI, D3 seasons, D4, LE etc.) then please don't look at their revenues (Income Statement) - it's a very bad metric to use in this situation. Instead, use "Cash received from customers" (Statement of cash flows).

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MorsExTenebris wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

Out of curiosity, I looked up the revenue for past years.

2018: 72.4 mil
2019: 99.2 mil
2020: 113.4 mil
2021: 104.9 mil
2022: 83.7 mil

2018 Blizzcon netted GGG more money than covid.

It's interesting how tied up PoE is to Diablo. The disappointing D:I announcement led to a massive influx of players to PoE.

Now, D4 is coming. If it's great, then it might drain players from PoE like nothing else.

But if D4 endgame turns out to be bad, then 3.22 will be the biggest league in PoE's history.

If you're trying to correlate PoE players' spend ($$) on MTX with the timing of other title releases and major content updates (like DI, D3 seasons, D4, LE etc.) then please don't look at their revenues (Income Statement) - it's a very bad metric to use in this situation. Instead, use "Cash received from customers" (Statement of cash flows).

Fair point. Revision:

2018: 59.9 mil
2019: 77.8 mil
2020: 108 mil
2021: 90 mil
2022: 65.8 mil

That makes the covid jump relatively larger to the blizzcon jump, though 2022 income is still about 15.5% down compared to 2019... and that's in that year's dollars, not adjusted for inflation.