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KevinLightBringer wrote:
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pr13st wrote:
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Mikrotherion wrote:
Yes, on the one hand, AN loot goblins are a bad idea.
On the other, however, if the hardest AN mods DIDN'T also provide massive loot, people would complain about the risk/reward ratio.
So it's really hard to balance - unless you actually reverted to the old system of Bloodlines and Nemesis.
I wouldn't mind that.
Same here. But it's weird to balance the rewards for loot goblins since there will be builds that trivialise them while their rewards put the uber pinnacle bosses' ones to shame.
Better make them go away or drastically diminish the returns while affected by MF or party bonus.
Party bonus should be removed from game, IIQ/IIR.
Make loot goblins don't get any bonus from IIQ/IIR, let them stay like that. Easy solution.
Exactly this. If I kill solo why should my loot be 1/100 of what a MF culler gets? In reality, I should get more doing it solo (but the mob should have a drop table that is the same regardless). The way this was implemented is just illogical (to me).
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Posted byJoeUtopia#8394on Nov 14, 2022, 1:52:41 PM
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innervation wrote:
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Turtledove wrote:
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pr13st wrote:
Teaser season starting as usual, Community team getting out of hybernation. Nothing new here, but I will be reading more between the lines.
If the loot goblin stays, I'll throw a tantrum.
What is interesting to me about this is why the loot goblin doesn't really work well in PoE. In Diablo3 the loot goblin is fun. I hear the goblin laugh from off screen and immediately start searching. If I see him on screen and don't quickly dispatch him then he disappears.
So what makes the loot goblin fun in one case and not a good mechanic in the other? Here's some thoughts on that. In D3 the laugh is important. It raises the excitement and triggers the search. It seems too that in D3 less loot is expected from the goblin. So there is not really an idea in my mind that I "have" to find one. It's more a sweet bonus in D3. It's hard for me to say though because I played very little this league. I'd be interested in the opinion of others and likely hold their opinion in higher regard than my own regarding the PoE side.
I think you're on the right track:
1) Signaling. Many people build such strong characters they complain they don't know they killed one till they see 2 exalts and 7 chaos on the ground.
2) Ratio/FOMO. GGG shifted too much of the base game loot too them - as you say, in D3, if a goblin gets away that sucks but whatever. In PoE you assume you just missed out on 5-50 divines even if they average less loot than that.
3) MF. In D3 you don't feel the need to switch characters or call in an MF character from TFT, an untrusted scam-prone 3rd party utility.
4) System shock. We're not used to this system. It was just a couple years ago Chris was excited to announce that they were putting boss drop uniques in the core pool, to reinforce the feeling that the next big drop is right around the corner. Now there's this.
Great explanation! I really hope that GGG sees this.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Nov 14, 2022, 2:42:48 PM
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I just don't have any goodwill left for the game. I can't trust in the future when the past has been such a let down.
Still to this day the game remains at war with itself and its players. The core philosophies of "we want the player to have meaningful interactions with monsters" alongside "here's a timer so you better be dealing massive damage and be able to obliterate screens instantly" is just one example.
In the past I'd be sceptical but at least hopeful. Now, I am sceptical and without hope. From there its not a large transition to just not caring any more.
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innervation wrote:
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Turtledove wrote:
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pr13st wrote:
Teaser season starting as usual, Community team getting out of hybernation. Nothing new here, but I will be reading more between the lines.
If the loot goblin stays, I'll throw a tantrum.
What is interesting to me about this is why the loot goblin doesn't really work well in PoE. In Diablo3 the loot goblin is fun. I hear the goblin laugh from off screen and immediately start searching. If I see him on screen and don't quickly dispatch him then he disappears.
So what makes the loot goblin fun in one case and not a good mechanic in the other? Here's some thoughts on that. In D3 the laugh is important. It raises the excitement and triggers the search. It seems too that in D3 less loot is expected from the goblin. So there is not really an idea in my mind that I "have" to find one. It's more a sweet bonus in D3. It's hard for me to say though because I played very little this league. I'd be interested in the opinion of others and likely hold their opinion in higher regard than my own regarding the PoE side.
I think you're on the right track:
1) Signaling. Many people build such strong characters they complain they don't know they killed one till they see 2 exalts and 7 chaos on the ground.
2) Ratio/FOMO. GGG shifted too much of the base game loot too them - as you say, in D3, if a goblin gets away that sucks but whatever. In PoE you assume you just missed out on 5-50 divines even if they average less loot than that.
3) MF. In D3 you don't feel the need to switch characters or call in an MF character from TFT, an untrusted scam-prone 3rd party utility.
4) System shock. We're not used to this system. It was just a couple years ago Chris was excited to announce that they were putting boss drop uniques in the core pool, to reinforce the feeling that the next big drop is right around the corner. Now there's this.
Good points. Hope you don't mind me adding 2.
5) Loot goblins in Diablo 3 are safe and not pumped as a sudden danger peak rare. The sudden part relates to 1.
6) Loot goblins in Diablo 3 are visually distinguishable, what you see is what you get. You don't need to hover over them to get a glimpse of mods in the middle of mayhem to see if a culler is worth it / what you're dealing with.
Did you try turning it off and on again?
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Posted bykaepae#2068on Nov 14, 2022, 4:02:14 PM
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They seem to actually hellbent in making players love the goddamn loot goblins.
Right now everyone hated the goblin that dropped a bunch of jewels. So they are nerfing how well jewels roll, and how many unique ones you are getting just so they can get that dopamine kick out of players when they find the shitty loot goblin.
Hooray, that means AN is here to stay.
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Posted bydeathspenalty#0833on Nov 15, 2022, 1:34:26 AM
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One more thing hovering over all this loot goblin stuff is that GGG is probably scratching their heads over it a bit.
Some very common feedback in Sentinel was 'we don't mind fighting hard rare monsters, but they need to drop commensurate rewards'. And GGG was like, ok, here's jewels, white sockets, fractured items, maps, div cards, scarabs, uniques, and a jackpot of currency. Those are things you guys like as rewards, right? And we put them on the hardest AN mobs. Big win!
I do believe it's tunable though. Some of these conversions need to go and be replaced by gumball currency. Corpse Detonator converting all drops to rings? How about 1-3 rings guaranteed and then drops a basic currency item or two. Basically like old Nem 3 farming used to be. Same for flask conversion and whetstone conversion. Nothing wrong with guaranteeing a couple flasks or 20 whetstones...but lets have it come alongside something else, or the chance at something else as opposed to 12 flasks and 120 whetstones.
I would return 20-33% of the 'historic loot bonus' they took away from past league content too.
I don't know how they fix the FOMO of 'I need to run max MF or call in a dedicated Magic Finder'. I've never been the FOMO type myself, idk what system would make this crowd feel less anxious about missing out on loot.
For signaling, since the valuable mobs are god-molested they could play an audio voice line as well as put the green text in your chat when they appear on your screen. This may be unfeasible as GGG had issues with cheaters catching this type of stuff in the zone pre-load of assets, so I know this stuff isn't as easy as 'just fix it', but some signaling would be nice. Maybe the image of the boss could be permanently above their head? That would have a good share of ppl crying about general combat visibility.
Manifesto will be out on it in the next 9 days probably, guess we'll all find out their plans together!
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Posted byinnervation#4093on Nov 15, 2022, 1:40:08 AM
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innervation wrote:
I don't know how they fix the FOMO of 'I need to run max MF or call in a dedicated Magic Finder'. I've never been the FOMO type myself, idk what system would make this crowd feel less anxious about missing out on loot.
By making AN mob drops not affected by MF. That would solve borderline all problems with it. Don't need pre-signalling when all you need to do is to kill the mob.
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Posted byXyel#0284on Nov 15, 2022, 1:59:17 AM
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Posted byNeoG#6817on Nov 15, 2022, 2:52:56 AM
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Yay! :)
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Posted byPatienceGG#3463on Nov 15, 2022, 10:06:11 AM
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The more time passes, the more this tweet grows on me 'I know the last couple of months were a bit rough, but don't worry, everything is going to be okay. Here's a manifesto full of nerfs to make it better.'
Brilliant!
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Posted byXyel#0284on Nov 15, 2022, 1:41:49 PM
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