When is diablo 4 coming out?

Loot is a factor. It ultimately exists to give you an excuse to play the game, but I think once it becomes too much of a factor, other things fall to the wayside. I dunno, think of it like clothing (not a big leap as far as metaphors go): it can be anything from high couture to a practical uniform. Both serve a function, but neither function is purely 'wearing the clothing'. I feel that loot, or gear as I'd rather look at it (pig vs bacon? chicken vs poultry?), is there to facilitate as much as it is to motivate. And I doubt either of us feel PoE pulls that one off, but that's okay: very few games really do. I find it better when devs err on the side of the latter rather than the former (i.e. when gear is simpler but functional) that they care more about the gameplay, but there are always exceptions. Similarly, when the gear gets too complicated, it can obfuscate other factors such as compelling, rewarding gameplay and distract the devs into thinking it's ALL about that loot/gear.

From what little I can tell, D4's current desired image isn't about gear/loot at all. The press release videos are pushing the tone, the scope, the difficulty (world tiers), the endgame offerings, the 'power fantasy' angle, and the multiplayer. I'm sure loot/gear is a part of any of those as a conversation but I get the feeling the devs realise that most gamers aren't *that* fussed about it. When my little group is looking for a new game, we don't talk about the loot as a primary issue. We want to know how it feels, how much there is to do, how smooth the UI is, diversity of classes/styles. In fact, the only time we really look at loot/gear is when we wonder whether or not we'll be wasting precious multiplayer time playing inventory games and fiddly shit like that. Nothing brings a good gaming session to a halt like impromptu exercises in min-maxing. I hate it, to be honest, because while I might have all the time in the world, none of my friends do. So if that stuff can be either streamlined (like 'em or hate 'em, D3's red and green arrows were a godsend for keeping the momentum going for that fantasy brawler) or set aside for later (with another MP hack and slasher we play, one much closer to the Souls/Nioh model, we ignore found loot for the session almost entirely and play upgrades afterwards in our own time), then that's a big plus.

This all jibes with Blizzard's known methodology of 'if the player puts down the controller or quits the game, we need to look at why'. They're a little obsessed with figuring out how to maximise a player's time and I genuinely like that. Smart loot is a natural feature of that philosophy.

I suppose if we get back to that pig vs bacon metaphor, loot vs gear, or discarding all metaphors altogether, raw resources vs processed materials/manufactured products, then PoE seems more than content to just set us loose among the farm with a sharp knife and a flintstone. This isn't really the norm anymore in ARPGs (I'm not convinced it ever was) but I appreciate that an ARPG doing it still exists. Other games of different genres do something similar: the survival/action game Conan Exiles struck me as particularly happy to just chuck a player into the fray of overwhelming raw resources; the infamous Dominions 4X strategy series does it mercilessly; and of course the aforementioned Eve Online is the gold standard in deep end MMOs.

Most other games dwell a little further down the assembly line, giving players processed ingredients to work with. And then, at the absolute other end of the spectrum, you have your visual novels and walking simulators, with minimal player engagement but, if done right, still entirely engrossing and satisfying. They don't do bacon so much as a gourmet breakfast.

I would argue a *really* good game is comfortable near the middle of this scale. It presents players the dual agency of loot/gearing up and doing cool, awesome things once geared (usually getting more loot, one way or another -- and in that I actually include xp if said xp translates into character power, as it should). Smart loot is not integral to that but it helps. A lot.

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Reinhart wrote:

Free trade has been part of oldschool online rpg's like Tibia, Ultima Online, Runescape, EVE Online. Online RPG's that are far from dead. Free Trading is an essential ingredient, just like PVP.

Sure mate, but they're not ARPGs. I get that D4 is trying to bridge the two (we'll see how that goes) but for now, I'm treating it like an ARPG first and foremost. And the ARPGs I listed (I haven't played 'em all, but most I reckon I've at least had a crack at) were not in any significant way trade-driven.

Also I'm not sure how trade even became a factor here. Is there some confirmation that Diablo 4 won't have trading as a basic feature for 'highest tier items'? I find that hard to believe given Blizzard basically standardised the inclusion of an in-game marketplace/auction house in fantasy MMOS -- before that we were mostly yelling our wares in Eastern Commons tunnel or Tir Na Nog. They likely weren't the first -- were they ever for anything? -- but as usual, they made it accessible.

Unless you mean quest-only, 'soulbound' epics a la EQ. In that case, I like that they are untradeable. When you saw someone with a glowing weapon in Everquest (and the only weapons that glowed WERE epics), you KNEW they'd been through a lot to get it. A lot. Weeks of tasks. Maybe months. Instant respect.

It's important for any online game to have something like that. A visual indicator, obvious at a glance, that someone is a seriously good player, and not just cashed up (in-game or out). You couldn't fly an impressive ship in Eve without months (and sometimes years) of real-time leveling up and trading; you can't get the best looking weapon skins or mounts in FFXIV without being able to handle 'savage raids'. And so on. Trade should only go so far.