just a thought, why not tie modifier tier to item level?

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

^creating the progression curve?

How, exactly? Explain it to me.

Rare drops are far more rare and STILL just as useless. Currency is far more rare and therefore basic crafting is almost impossible.

Harvest and other crafting options are dead, or otherwise gated behind insane rng.

How is THIS league more of a progression curve than all other leagues, which had crafting for incremental increases of gear, enough gear and currency dropping to actually USE it for crafting or trading, and easier to conquer content when you WEREN'T ready for endgame boss level difficulty?

The way I see it, GGG is REMOVING all elements of incremental progression; and from multiple angles at that. You enter white maps and are assaulted from all sides with monsters stronger than any boss, you can't craft OR find gear to conquer said monsters, and you can't use any kind of currency because it doesn't drop, and even if it did you won't have nearly enough of it to make a single meaningful piece of equipment.

Regarding the OP: some of you are being rather silly about the assessment of the idea, perhaps because you are focusing on the ilvls he chose. Let's not forget, ilvl 80 drops in t13 maps primarily. If you are running mid to late red tier maps, chances are you ALREADY need to be geared with at least t3 rolls on everything in order to survive and deal enough damage. And GGG can weight the tiers as badly as they want: t3 = 80%, t2 = 15%, t1 = 5% of all rolled mods. 80% of items would still be useless to you at that point and likely wouldn't sell for much, but you STILL have a much better chance of finding something actually useable on the ground. Right now, NOTHING is useable on the ground.

I hate these posts saying ideas like this would make the chase for gear incredibly simple...uh no it won't. It'll STILL take forever to get 6-mod t2/t1 gear in every slot. And these numbers can be tweaked to a comfortable level making it super difficult to find perfect gear, but having DECENT gear drop far more often. Effectively just removing the total trash from the equation. The ONLY thing that would happen by adopting an idea such as this one is that it adds meaning and possibility to the drop pool. Which is what this game desperately needs. Just do the math: even reducing the drop pool to only 3 tiers still makes it nearly impossible to FIND a med-high to high tier item.

First of all, dude, you gotta chill with that doomsday mentality...
we'll all survive that, and if anything, this would teach you ways to overcome those new challenges...
speaking of which...
given you're at 0 challenges, i assume you play standard...
furthermore assuming, because of the lich bane supporter pack badge, that you're banking on currency and didnt have a new league experience...

EDIT: i checked your profile, and without the intention to shame you...
dude, you have 3 characters in kalandra league
Lvl 12
Lvl 19
Lvl 2

sorry, but how are you making claims about drop rates? because you didnt get showered with uniques in the first act?!
how do you base your judgement?
second hand opinions? genuinely asking...
i really find it hard to have a serious and most importantly constructive discussion with someone, who apparently does not know what he is talking about. i dont care about what you may have seen on some stream or youtube video.
i dont care about people hoppin the whole empy drama, already because there are also people generating mad currency (check gamer for life).
etc.
like, nothing brings more to the table of a discussion than a valid, based opinion, but it has to be based on a personal base, not some second hand opinion...

either way, i personally have not those mentioned issues.
i have currency, i have items, i progress... on my 3rd character now...
i am not rich, but i get along more than well, in an ssf environment.



trying not to bring those "get gud" vibes, but in all seriousness...
posting on the forums doesnt bring any currency, playing the game does...
and for the harvest is dead memes.
yes, it got nerfed, it finally got a well deserved hit.
but is it dead? not at all. harvest is just not able to be the one and only way to create desired items.

as for your questions tho
in the past leagues, you had no curves, item progression was linear, with peaks here and there.
now, progression is way more of a curve, the more you progress your items, the further you progress your atlas, which enables further gear progression.
this is how this kind of games is supposed to be played, i dont know what to tell you otherwise...

past leagues were more of a diablo 3 approach, get ilvl 76 bases, go to harvest, get your gear going, farm t16 maps.
this was quite basically how haedrig's gift in diablo 3 works.
run some rifts, complete some minor season journey stuff, get your set to instantly push greater rifts, farm either ancient versions of that set or the set that is meta this season, and then ancient versions of that.
this is not about the loot spiral, it is about the amount of player power you get out of nothing, the amount of reward for literally no effort.
that's what harvest was like, not as much, on a smaller scale to be fair, but still.

and as i said, yes to get ilvl 80 you need to have appropriate gear.
but having a safety net, that blocks lower tier rolls, is still something that would decrease the amount of item progression...
i dont know, all these conveniences people ask for...
why do you play this kind of game?
is it for the bragging right of playing "the most complex arpg"?
because most people consider poe hard?

i play this game, because it is (used to be more) challenging, therefore rewarding when you succeed.
same goes for items.
i personally, once again, ssf environment, getting those boots as an example, would love having those in red maps.
if i got them now? dude, i'd suck some toes for them, i'd be fucking happy, i'd feel rewarded for trying and tryin and trying to get a nice pair of boots.
but if those rules as OP suggested applied, you'd take away a lot of the effort, RNG, therefore challenge, therefore reward, away.

all these suggestions, that go in the direction of easing certain aspects of the game, ruin the game...
i dont understand how this is hard to understand...
i am frustrated often enough, dont get me wrong, like really, i bricked so many good items in certain ways, holy shit.
but once i hit what i want, damn, that's a fucking rewarding feeling.
Path of exile is not about rushing things, leagues last at least 3 months, obviously not counting standard...

people should try and not identify themselves with certain streamers/ racers.
like, if you want to be a racer, more power to you, but when you are asking for literal shortcuts, you simply are not a racer when you ask to remove challenge and competition.
if you want to play the game, and you genuinely enjoy doing so, play it in your pace, how you want it, dont get influenced by whatever certain content creators do, and more importantly, not how they judge certain things...

Genuine food for thought:
New Diablo 3 season starts soon, go and play this game and come back when you lost interest and most importantly the fun in playing it and give a feedback.

My personal view on this:


Another Edit:
Regarding currency drops



This kind of map never gave you currency, and never will...
you always had to invest, or in the case of last league, had to add risk to gain bigger profits.
like, sure running a map like that still nets a plus on currency, but if you wanna bank more than a bunch of transmutes, you gotta invest.
just to keep that out there...

"

holysmokes5018 wrote:

^^^
yes assuming in one gear you need 5 of 6 mods to be either t1 or t2.

assuming t2 is 15% t1 is 5%

getting 5 mods t2 or bether is 0.2*0.2*0.2*0.2*0.2=0.00032 roughly

this is without considering the useless mods.

Appreciate it, but even that math is way off...and not in a good way. with your equation you assume 2 things: the weight of each mod is the same, and the VALUE of each mod is the same (which of course you mentioned).

Remove the % chance and weighting and lets just look at rolling 1 specific mod at 1 specific tier.

An item has a pool of 15 suffixes. Each suffix has 3 tiers. You have a 1/45 chance of getting the desired suffix. Now you want TWO specific mods, your odds of getting them is 1 / (45 x 42) which is already nearly 1 out of every 2000 rare drops. For two mods. Not counting weight. Add in weights of specific mods AND tiers and that number could easily be 10x, 20x, even 100x WORSE than that. And that's just dealing with 3 tiers!

Now lets say you play smart and you can get ANY combination of 5 different suffixes (plausible), but in order for them to be an upgrade on your current gear they HAVE to be t1. 5 / 45 to get 1 mod which is not too shabby, but then you add just 1 more of your necessary mods and that drops to 1 out of 400 drops.

Likely in order to actually FIND an upgrade you are going to need AT LEAST 4 specific mods (including prefixes). Now the pool of total mods is 90, and you have a choice of 10 mods that will work for you. 10 / (90 x 87 x 84 x 81) chance of that item dropping. WITHOUT ANY KIND OF WEIGHTING.

And people actually think a system like this will break the game and make great items drop like candy....smh.

@squarecubic: yep judge me on my account...that sure lends you tons of credibility. I have played every single league since the beta, with the exception of this current league which i havent started and the previous league because I didn't really have fun. I have deleted almost every single standard character i ever had because I never considered playing standard until very recently. My existing characters on my account were all created in 3.16 - 3.18.

I haven't bought more supporter packs because, quite frankly, I think its the epitome of dumb to purchase a COSMETIC EFFECT for 20 bucks. I don't give a damn, the base game looks perfectly fine to me. Only bought bane lich because it came with store credits which i needed for the newly released stash tabs at the time and it was the same price as if I just bought the credits straight so why not.

But sure, do the cool thing and make assumptions based on my character list and attempt to be polite about it. Cuz there's no such thing as the delete button...

I have enough experience playing this game for 10 years and thousands of hours to know how the game works without having to play the entire thing. I read the forums, watch the streams, and play the game regularly. I can SEE what is happening without having to experience it myself because...I know what I will experience and I don't feel the need to subject myself to that.

But I also HAVE ran a decent number of maps on my standard 160% quant mf character and I've already seen firsthand how terrible the situation is.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

@squarecubic: yep judge me on my account...that sure lends you tons of credibility. I have played every single league since the beta, with the exception of this current league which i havent started and the previous league because I didn't really have fun. I have deleted almost every single standard character i ever had because I never considered playing standard until very recently. My existing characters on my account were all created in 3.16 - 3.18.

I haven't bought more supporter packs because, quite frankly, I think its the epitome of dumb to purchase a COSMETIC EFFECT for 20 bucks. I don't give a damn, the base game looks perfectly fine to me. Only bought bane lich because it came with store credits which i needed for the newly released stash tabs at the time and it was the same price as if I just bought the credits straight so why not.

But sure, do the cool thing and make assumptions based on my character list and attempt to be polite about it. Cuz there's no such thing as the delete button...

I have enough experience playing this game for 10 years and thousands of hours to know how the game works without having to play the entire thing. I read the forums, watch the streams, and play the game regularly. I can SEE what is happening without having to experience it myself because...I know what I will experience and I don't feel the need to subject myself to that.

But I also HAVE ran a decent number of maps on my standard 160% quant mf character and I've already seen firsthand how terrible the situation is.

you got me wrong buddy

the supporter pack reference was simply an indicator for, you are not new to the game, not in a negative way like some people tend to.
buying mtx is optional, and hey, you have bought a supporter pack. so you aint a freeloarder either :)
unrelated: i am a two game andy, i play rocket league and poe, that's it.
personally, and i wouldnt suggest anyone to do the same as i did/do.
i could go buy a AAA title, play it for a couple of hours, and leave it to rot. or i might as well spend that money on poe, which still has an insanely good hours played / money spent ratio.

regarding the characters, your account is one year older than mine, still every league is different.
you cant compare standard with the actual changes with the new league, because most of time those changes go hand in hand with the new league mechanic.
the way this patch was released, yes not gonna lie, standard was screwed, as those guys were missing the lake to "KIND OF" compensate for the drop rate changes.
i was referencing your league characters exclusively btw
and those have not ran any bigger lakes, and they were rewarding most of the time, for me at least (reference the screenshot).
so, yea, drop rates were reduced, lake kinda makes up for it, especially in maps... definitely something you cannot just "imagine because you have experience"

and i am personally kind of allergic to premature criticism, you played heist i assume?
the very first days i was like "damn that's an amazing mechanic, to get better/ more loot you gotta improve your heist dudes"
it was a nearly perfect loot spiral
what happened?
some people were super good at it, printed money like crazy
majority was not tho, and they didnt wanna deal with the micro management
so the criticism wave rised
people were mad that others, who invested thought and currency on their followers banked mad currency.
complaints after complaints heist got dumbed down to a state that followers were a nice to have thing, but not mandatory anymore.
and this was day 4?

poe was, and i am sure you can agree, a game where the struggle was an important part of the game, the more you struggle the higher the (feeling of) reward.
that's basic reward psychology.
right now? we reached a state where people complain that they have to hit a rare twice to kill it????????????????
this is quite literally diablo 3 playstyle.
no journey, no struggle, no actual reward.
well, rewards exist, but in fact they are meaningless.
it became rushing from one minor dopamine rush to another.

and i dont wanna be "that guy"
but none of the people i know feel that struggle as hard as reddit makes it sound like. that's anecdotal, okay.
but neither do i, and i am by no means a god tier poe player.

not the biggest fan of sentences like "i have experience, i know what it is like without trying it" sorry, that's assumptious and that's all i am gonna say about that...

sidenote for future reference: please, if someone tries to discuss something with you, please dont react as if that person wants to cannibalize you.
i was simply pointing out points, that made me wonder where you got your opinions from. because there was no actual league progress visible, so it had to be either standard or second hand opinions.
i am sorry if this felt me attacking you, but then again, i am pretty sure i did not write it in a way that was aggressive or hostile, yet you felt attacked...
makes it quite difficult to have an discussion.