[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

Physical attacks should have a status ailment that reduces the enemies' armor on crit (rather than increase base damage in some fashion). That way, players can focus on crit and multi (as a modifier to the % of armor reduced per crit) .. let me elaborate.

Problem with crits on a physical build (which is why most go RT or ignore the nodes) is reflect. Unless ur crazy enough to try a ES melee character (therefore, using vaal pact), ur likely to pummel urself in one fell swoop if you crit and get a huge multi roll.

example: My cleaver does around 65k dps now without crit nodes. (40k or so with IAOE). Physical reflect isnt too much of a problem at about 50% reduction and popping a granite. If its problematic, i switch to IAOE or even take out cleave for infernal blow just to watch ranged characters destroy mobs.

That same build, which focused on crit/multi - I would blow myself up on one pack of phys reflect 9.9/10 times (since my crit % was around 22% and multi was up to 300% or so). Similar damage (about 5k more) - but far more deaths. It was unplayable.


Now heres my suggestion: crit should lower armor on successful crit, crit multi increases armor reduced per crit.

This way - the damage dealt by the player remains the same, but the armor reduction effect on the mob is increased per crit, and even more so when multi nodes are taken.

Idea - dps may be less on paper (forfeiting phys nodes for crit nodes) - but the effect on the mobs, and therefore your utility to a party, is that you can reduce armor of mobs, especially those with high armor. Less armor = less reduction = more damage.

The kicker - the increased damage to a mob as a result of reducing its armor should not reflect. Thus, your base damage will reflect at a % consistently, but if you reduce armor to zero on enough crits, the reflection will remain stagnant. Thus, crits will "increase damage" and multiplier even more so, but the effect will not instant gib ur character.

Mind you most crit heavy builds are range, probably for this reason. Even with 10% leech i was absolutely destroying myself at 75% reduction and 4200 life. Issue: I was doing TOO much damage - but since when do we want to penalize someone for that? :P

Just a thought

--Daytrippin--



Last edited by daytrippah#3757 on Sep 20, 2013, 6:19:24 AM
People are sick of too much pain and too less reward theme.

Look into the loot design on Diablo 3 console version, and that's your direction.

I love the game mechanism, but the drop/rng eliminate all the fun.
IGN: Linsfamily_ST
Last edited by spiky0209#0736 on Sep 20, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
Pls separate SP from MP. So ppl who want to have a good experience can play singleplayer mode with "trusting client" so less or even none desync problems.
And those others who like mp & that racing s***, can play with that laggy desyncy client.

Capiche?
"Due to the fact that we want to have hardcore game mechanics (i.e. ones where position matters and it's difficult to cheat in PvP), the only option for us has been to put a lot of work into improving our combat simulation and resync code."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 2 things, I want to say about that:

1) Position matters:
I love your approach to hardcore game mechanics and that you include so many details in it. I also can befriend with the thought that rubberbanding is GOOD ( i guess... ).
But if position matters (which is so important to you!), this mechanic has to work for the player aswell as against it! At this stage, it seems to only work against us. Players frequently desync into new rooms without a chance to do anything about it... How can position matter, if we have no control over it?

2) Difficult to cheat in PvP:
I won't ask you about statistics of how many players actually play PvP at the moment. It is not important to my point.
But what I want to ask you is this:
How many threads and posts in this forum contain complaints about desyncing while playing the content - and how many of such threads can you see, complaining about PvP cheating issues?
Let PvP be as it is - it's fun! (not nearly perfected, but it's still amusing)
But your focus has to be, to make the game run smoothly (as close as you can get!) - in order to make it delightful to play.

You said: "the only option for us has been to put a lot of work into improving our combat simulation and resync code."

I want you to do that. And I want you to focus on it. Because you said you'd do it.

You cold also show us some results from time to time. Maybe explain what you were working on, in the patch notes. Communicating with the player base is key - and it always was for you.


One last thing: This is my own opinion, and I am not writing for others, I am not including anyone else. I believe I have a right to my opinion because I put quite some money into this project. So if you (the community) disagree with me, pls keep it gentle!


Thank you for designing such a great game, GGG.

Regards, Meerkatz13

"The one who dies with the most toys is still dead."
- Geth, keeper of the Vault.


"
daytrippah wrote:
Physical attacks should have a status ailment that reduces the enemies' armor on crit (rather than increase base damage in some fashion). That way, players can focus on crit and multi (as a modifier to the % of armor reduced per crit) .. let me elaborate.

Problem with crits on a physical build (which is why most go RT or ignore the nodes) is reflect. Unless ur crazy enough to try a ES melee character (therefore, using vaal pact), ur likely to pummel urself in one fell swoop if you crit and get a huge multi roll.

example: My cleaver does around 65k dps now without crit nodes. (40k or so with IAOE). Physical reflect isnt too much of a problem at about 50% reduction and popping a granite. If its problematic, i switch to IAOE or even take out cleave for infernal blow just to watch ranged characters destroy mobs.

That same build, which focused on crit/multi - I would blow myself up on one pack of phys reflect 9.9/10 times (since my crit % was around 22% and multi was up to 300% or so). Similar damage (about 5k more) - but far more deaths. It was unplayable.


Now heres my suggestion: crit should lower armor on successful crit, crit multi increases armor reduced per crit.

This way - the damage dealt by the player remains the same, but the armor reduction effect on the mob is increased per crit, and even more so when multi nodes are taken.

Idea - dps may be less on paper (forfeiting phys nodes for crit nodes) - but the effect on the mobs, and therefore your utility to a party, is that you can reduce armor of mobs, especially those with high armor. Less armor = less reduction = more damage.

The kicker - the increased damage to a mob as a result of reducing its armor should not reflect. Thus, your base damage will reflect at a % consistently, but if you reduce armor to zero on enough crits, the reflection will remain stagnant. Thus, crits will "increase damage" and multiplier even more so, but the effect will not instant gib ur character.

Mind you most crit heavy builds are range, probably for this reason. Even with 10% leech i was absolutely destroying myself at 75% reduction and 4200 life. Issue: I was doing TOO much damage - but since when do we want to penalize someone for that? :P

Just a thought

--Daytrippin--





Physical attacks can use life/mana leech from gear. Physical attacks, after a certain amounts of damage (perfomed via crit multiplier) almost ignore enemy's armour. Physical attacks actually have TWO benefits, and you even dont need to crit to make them work! Why do you ask for mechanics, that is implemented already???

I dont know what are you talking about, physical attacks are generally FAR BETTER than elemental ones. With physial attacks, you dont need life leech gem, you dont need penetration gem and resists-reducing curses! Just take resists and leech into consideration, and you'll see that elemental attacks are worse than physical ones.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Regarding desync/resync, does holding Shift while attacking/casting prevent the server from forcing your character to correct position? I've been experiencing instances where I am warped into the attack/cast line of sight, sometimes into groups of mobs and rooms I've not stepped foot in.

If holding Shift while attacking/casting helps this, could you implement a feature that always assumes Shift is held when attacking/casting? Possibly use Caps-Lock or something as an enable-disable key?
"
MortalKombat3 wrote:
"
daytrippah wrote:
Physical attacks should have a status ailment that reduces the enemies' armor on crit (rather than increase base damage in some fashion). That way, players can focus on crit and multi (as a modifier to the % of armor reduced per crit) .. let me elaborate.

Problem with crits on a physical build (which is why most go RT or ignore the nodes) is reflect. Unless ur crazy enough to try a ES melee character (therefore, using vaal pact), ur likely to pummel urself in one fell swoop if you crit and get a huge multi roll.

example: My cleaver does around 65k dps now without crit nodes. (40k or so with IAOE). Physical reflect isnt too much of a problem at about 50% reduction and popping a granite. If its problematic, i switch to IAOE or even take out cleave for infernal blow just to watch ranged characters destroy mobs.

That same build, which focused on crit/multi - I would blow myself up on one pack of phys reflect 9.9/10 times (since my crit % was around 22% and multi was up to 300% or so). Similar damage (about 5k more) - but far more deaths. It was unplayable.


Now heres my suggestion: crit should lower armor on successful crit, crit multi increases armor reduced per crit.

This way - the damage dealt by the player remains the same, but the armor reduction effect on the mob is increased per crit, and even more so when multi nodes are taken.

Idea - dps may be less on paper (forfeiting phys nodes for crit nodes) - but the effect on the mobs, and therefore your utility to a party, is that you can reduce armor of mobs, especially those with high armor. Less armor = less reduction = more damage.

The kicker - the increased damage to a mob as a result of reducing its armor should not reflect. Thus, your base damage will reflect at a % consistently, but if you reduce armor to zero on enough crits, the reflection will remain stagnant. Thus, crits will "increase damage" and multiplier even more so, but the effect will not instant gib ur character.

Mind you most crit heavy builds are range, probably for this reason. Even with 10% leech i was absolutely destroying myself at 75% reduction and 4200 life. Issue: I was doing TOO much damage - but since when do we want to penalize someone for that? :P

Just a thought

--Daytrippin--





Physical attacks can use life/mana leech from gear. Physical attacks, after a certain amounts of damage (perfomed via crit multiplier) almost ignore enemy's armour. Physical attacks actually have TWO benefits, and you even dont need to crit to make them work! Why do you ask for mechanics, that is implemented already???

I dont know what are you talking about, physical attacks are generally FAR BETTER than elemental ones. With physial attacks, you dont need life leech gem, you dont need penetration gem and resists-reducing curses! Just take resists and leech into consideration, and you'll see that elemental attacks are worse than physical ones.


not saying phys attacks are bad.. im saying phys crit is impossible (even with 10% leech) - the only way its SORT of ok is if u use vaal pact. but not many life users would go that route.

crits should just reduce armor instead of multiplying damage. thats all. :)
I've been desync'd when I never moved. I find it hard to believe that your thread was explained correctly. Please explain to me how this happens? I've also been ported into rooms when doors where never opened.

Sorry....but desync is a lot worse now. I'm not entirely sure why I even bothered to reply. Just a waste of time.
Clicking on the link in the first post says "You don't have permission to access this area.". What gives? :P
What have you become when even nightmares fear you?
"
You don't have permission to access this area.


That's what the link brings me to.

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