Let us level by other means than the campaign - suggestions

Being casual and being forced to run through the same campaign time and time again, is keeping me from enjoying new leagues. Leagues the developers have put so much time and effort into.

I know speedrunners can get through it in a few hours, but for me it realistically takes the entire weekend (if I don't burn out before it's over).

Please consider letting us level in different ways:
-Atlas: Let us run maps in the atlas in such a way, that they don't count as completion until we reach level 60-something.
-Delve: Let us run whatever depths we can handle.
-Labyrinth: Let us level in the labyrinth, making it unlockable in a way that doesn't require the campaign.
-Heist: Let us level in low level heists.

I'm sure you guys could make this work (like letting us get access to skill gems, letting us get ressources to run delves etc.). You've made these awesome systems that are begging to be utilized for leveling as well.

If this was implemented, I would play the league for longer, I would play more characters and I would get more friends to play the game.

Tobikaj

PS: I posted about it here https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ui1j2a/318_league_info_megathread/i7j8bi7/?context=3

Where I especially resonated with this reply:
"I feel the same. I'm not especially casual -- I'm at over 1,200 hours in POE at this point, spread our over ~2 years of play, and I've purchased several hundred dollars worth of supporter packs -- but I'm waiting until the entirely new "POE 2.0" campaign debuts or some kind of Adventure Mode equivalent before coming back. I've mostly skipped the past couple Leagues, and at this point there's nothing new enough to draw me back in.

The current 10-act campaign is just too familiar and too tedious, even if streamers, efficiency junkies, and some of the more toxic gatekeepers in this community insist that it's "only 5-8 hours" to do. Getting a single character through to maps is easily a day for me, if not a weekend, and my motivation to keep playing doesn't always survive the trip. That alone makes the prospect of a second League character a non-starter, which is really too bad, since I'd probably play 2-3 characters each cycle easily if I had alternate leveling paths like Infinte Delve or just a cut-down version of maps.

The end-game loop in this game is really enjoyable, and particularly with all the recent (and awesome!) changes to Mapping and the Atlas, so it's a shame that GGG insists on pushing us through the same stale, overly long campaign to get to the real fun. Shit, even if they want to force us into hub town spaces to drive MTX sales, that's no problem -- just free us from the same 'ol campaign on soul-crushing repeat."

so you want, a alternative way to level, on league start? that sounds borderline like Diablo 3

apart from the whole casual non casual debate...

getting through the campaign is kinda annoying, fine, i get that
BUT
the campaign is basically nothing else than autopiloting
you know EXACTLY what to expect
you know EXACTLY what powerlevel you need
and you know EXACTLY what you gotta do.
in other words, you can watch a movie, series, stream at the same time.

if you need a weekend (whatever this means in hours played) why not try to improve instead of demanding changes.
like, honestly, this game is not designed to cater to people giving up early, it is also not catered to people that are not willing to invest time.
there are various reasons for that, one of which might even be economically.
someone who is willing to invest as much time into the game, is more willing to pay for mtx n stuff, which is, given the price tags, a rational approach.

also, being casual is not an excuse in any way imho.
this is basically asking to play the game someone else may invest more time and effort for, with less investment.
what would be the next step?
casualize challenges? so they basically become participation trophies?
levelling a character to get to maps needs to have its weight, its cost, because that is what keeps a certain balance and makes the economy healthy.
just looking at the costs of respeccing a whole tree in comparison to levelling new char, same class...
i dunno, i'd always level a new char in such a situation.

also this game is Diablo 2s spiritual successor, now imagine having to replay Act 1-5, three times before maps. that we have 10 acts, two parts, already added some fresh wind into the levelling, and as it is, it is in a good state, in reference to the roots.

the playerbase really should consider adapting instead of demanding changes according to their likings...

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

so you want, a alternative way to level, on league start? that sounds borderline like Diablo 3

Not everything Diablo 3 implemented was a bad idea. Having alternative ways to work yourself up to mapping seems like a good idea to me.

I don't see why we should have to limit ourselves to such a boring and static campaign. Not everyone is capable of clearing it on day 1 of a league. In fact, the strategy necessary to speed through campaign is a clear indicator how terrible it is that it makes you want to get it done as quickly as possible.

Being able to level up to mapping through other means, such as using existing league encounters like Heist or Delve or even Synthesis, would only be a net positive for those who want progression without going through the same boring slog.

"

Tobikaj wrote:

PS: I posted about it here https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ui1j2a/318_league_info_megathread/i7j8bi7/?context=3

Where I especially resonated with this reply:
"I feel the same. I'm not especially casual -- I'm at over 1,200 hours in POE at this point, spread our over ~2 years of play, and I've purchased several hundred dollars worth of supporter packs -- but I'm waiting until the entirely new "POE 2.0" campaign debuts or some kind of Adventure Mode equivalent before coming back. I've mostly skipped the past couple Leagues, and at this point there's nothing new enough to draw me back in.

The current 10-act campaign is just too familiar and too tedious, even if streamers, efficiency junkies, and some of the more toxic gatekeepers in this community insist that it's "only 5-8 hours" to do. Getting a single character through to maps is easily a day for me, if not a weekend, and my motivation to keep playing doesn't always survive the trip. That alone makes the prospect of a second League character a non-starter, which is really too bad, since I'd probably play 2-3 characters each cycle easily if I had alternate leveling paths like Infinte Delve or just a cut-down version of maps.

The end-game loop in this game is really enjoyable, and particularly with all the recent (and awesome!) changes to Mapping and the Atlas, so it's a shame that GGG insists on pushing us through the same stale, overly long campaign to get to the real fun. Shit, even if they want to force us into hub town spaces to drive MTX sales, that's no problem -- just free us from the same 'ol campaign on soul-crushing repeat."

My boyfriend would resonate with this as well. Going through the campaign was fine the first couple times, but after going through it enough on multiple characters or leagues, it becomes tedious and boring. He quit the game years ago as a result, and my attempts to convince him to come back has done little to help.

He'll only consider returning at this point is when PoE2 happens, but I know it'll only be a matter of time before he completes the new campaign enough that it becomes too boring to do and quit again. The endgame is where all of the most interesting things happen in PoE, and gating it behind a slog like the campaign is enough to burn people out. It's that bad.

These resources are going to the second campaign which will serve as an alternative route to endgame to the current one existing. A second and probably better campaign is much more favourable than anything else.


The endless delve race was a disaster as most people didn't even like it. People have rose tinted glasses when it comes to endless delve as an alternative leveling scheme.

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

so you want, a alternative way to level, on league start? that sounds borderline like Diablo 3

apart from the whole casual non casual debate...

getting through the campaign is kinda annoying, fine, i get that
BUT
the campaign is basically nothing else than autopiloting
you know EXACTLY what to expect
you know EXACTLY what powerlevel you need
and you know EXACTLY what you gotta do.
in other words, you can watch a movie, series, stream at the same time.

So you basically agree that it is boring. Something that can be autopiloted isn't fun nor engaging.

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

if you need a weekend (whatever this means in hours played) why not try to improve instead of demanding changes.
like, honestly, this game is not designed to cater to people giving up early, it is also not catered to people that are not willing to invest time.
there are various reasons for that, one of which might even be economically.
someone who is willing to invest as much time into the game, is more willing to pay for mtx n stuff, which is, given the price tags, a rational approach.

I'm not "demanding" changes. I'm coming up with suggestions as to how to make the game more fun. Are you against giving players more ways to level? Does it take away from your experience if others enjoy leveling in Delve? Locking the new league content behind a 10-16(?) hour boring wall doesn't make any sense.

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

what would be the next step?
casualize challenges? so they basically become participation trophies?

Slippery slope fallacy and strawmen arguments. I've clearly defined in my suggestion what should be implemented.

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

levelling a character to get to maps needs to have its weight, its cost, because that is what keeps a certain balance and makes the economy healthy.
just looking at the costs of respeccing a whole tree in comparison to levelling new char, same class...

What are you even talking about? Why would leveling a different way bring imbalance to the economy? What..

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

also this game is Diablo 2s spiritual successor, now imagine having to replay Act 1-5, three times before maps. that we have 10 acts, two parts, already added some fresh wind into the levelling, and as it is, it is in a good state, in reference to the roots.

I guess we can stop all development then. The game is better than Diablo 2. That's obviously silly. Imagine we had to run through the Diablo 3 campaign each time there's a new season. Yeah, that's stupid. But it's not stupid that we have to do it in PoE (I guess).

"

SquareCubiC wrote:

the playerbase really should consider adapting instead of demanding changes according to their likings...

You should really embrace changes that objectively make the game better for many players, while not being a net negative for those that don't care about them.

"

Tobikaj wrote:

for you it may be boring, for me, and others it is an thing easily done while watching a movie, or so.
Yes, i in fact need 5 hours tops to get to maps.
Is it an excuse to say "i need ages to get to maps"?
no it certainly is not, because there is people that can do that, why take that kind of accomplishment away from them? just so people that dont want to improve their routing through the campaign are having "a fun time"?

Alternative ways of Levelling might have an impact on economy, of course it could. because with delve for example, you end up levelling potentially faster, due to the density and abusable nature of those league mechanics, you could even gain a economical advantage, in forms of items/ currency...
on a league start you might end up being faster in maps => economical advantages galore!
balancing that would be a pain and basically kind of impossible.
not to mention, there is hardcore mode...

it is not a slippery slope to say that casualizing certain aspects is pointless, because that is basically what it is.
hey, you dont wanna "struggle" through the campaign for each character? fine then dont have em.
it is about decisions and consequences, a real life projection even.
you dont wanna get up in the morning from monday to friday to go to your job and make money? well, guess you dont get your money then, right?

running through the campaign of Diablo 3 for each character?
for the shallow experience that is Diablo 3s endgame? lol no way

in Path of exile tho, you have plenty of endgame.
personally the levelling makes for the least amount of time spent on my characters, obviously, given which options we have and how for example End Game Grinds are build.

Calling those changes "an objective improvement" is blatantly wrong.
not only from a game longevities point of view, but also from ressources used for maintainence and actual impact on the game.

Please dont take that as a personal offense, but i levelled 18 different builds this league, each a new character, and using the skills i wanted to use in the final form, as soon as it was available to me.
now if i imagined being able to have a "potentially faster streamlined endless delve kind of levelling"
it would be boring me out, because it is way too repetitive. one of the reasons why things like endless delve were not received too well by the majority of the players.
like, personally speaking? new season in Diablo 3? hell, i am actually done with the game once i hit 70 after 2 or 3 hours, and i feel like dumbed down and bored out.
do people like it tho? some do, some dont.
would i ever think of going to a blizzard forum or reddit and propose changes, that in my opinion "objectively improve" the game?
no, because i simply have nothing but my very own opinion and maybe feedback from others on reddit/ YT or whatever.
Which is not the best sample size to justify changes in such a system.

Also, we're not talking about some small indie game, that was just released last week.
Path of Exile became the genres representative, already years ago.
look at the "competititors", they are no match, by a landslide.
So, we can kind of say the studio/ devs/ people working on the game, are pretty much veterans. this doesnt make them unfailable, but at least you should expect them to know what they are doing. Especially those with no (game) developers background should question certain decisions made by them - Sticking to their system for example.
Not listening to EVERY feedback is in many cases healthier for the game anyway, because players rarely ever have the games betterment in mind, it is rather a "aiming for instant or at least faster gratification" that drives the majority of people creating that "feedback".
While there might be some potentially good improvement suggestions, you have to keep in mind that many of them simply ignore the potential sideeffects, because of the focus on the "improvement of the players individual experience" - which in the least cases are actually for the games betterment.

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

Not everything Diablo 3 implemented was a bad idea. Having alternative ways to work yourself up to mapping seems like a good idea to me.

I don't see why we should have to limit ourselves to such a boring and static campaign. Not everyone is capable of clearing it on day 1 of a league. In fact, the strategy necessary to speed through campaign is a clear indicator how terrible it is that it makes you want to get it done as quickly as possible.

Being able to level up to mapping through other means, such as using existing league encounters like Heist or Delve or even Synthesis, would only be a net positive for those who want progression without going through the same boring slog.

as stated above, there are variables that make those alternate levelling systems simply a bad idea.
also, diablo 3 implemented adventure mode, after the auction house was gone, wasnt it?
but right there we have a great example.
you have an item economy, you have different ways to level

so, would you rather play the campaign or the adventure mode to level?
faster rifts with adventure mode, great!
that's an economical advantage over anyone playing the canpaign!

=> basically anyone that is halfway capable would use that method, if not, you're missing out on potential profit.
Now THAT IS FUN AND IMPROVEMENT RIGHT!?

Also, there is the ladder,
same story! fun and improvement right there!

etc. etc.
there are soooooo many flaws with that idea.

like, did you delve or heist for hours? this just turns into a chore rather than anything else.
mapping from the beginning to actual maps? oh well, rifts are also a great thing in diablo 3 right? it is a shallow game experience right there, with not the slightes replayability and longevity.

I mean, Pizzarugi, you even have that very same situation in your signature.
This is the main issue we have in this game, the players, not the game itself.

Chris addressed this in the podcast. It's not happening. POE2 will have a new system, and if they give a way to skip the campaign now, people will want it in 2, and not give the POE 2 campaign any chance.

Totally agree with this post, the campain is a monotonous hamster wheel. Apart for the first character of the league, you should be given an option to level alts in other ways.

"

Marinxar wrote:

Chris addressed this in the podcast. It's not happening. POE2 will have a new system, and if they give a way to skip the campaign now, people will want it in 2, and not give the POE 2 campaign any chance.

Personally, I would consider making it so you would have to complete the campaign at least once - just like unlocking Scion (if I recall correctly). Even only having to go through the campaign once per league would be an improvement.