Diablo Immortal coming to PC

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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ladish wrote:

Diablo Immortal as a "game" is a disgrace and calling it f2p with the knowledge of the insidious and predatory monetization scheme embedded in its soul is either wildly misguided or utterly foolish.

So is the notion that you are somehow forced to engage.

I fail to see why Blizzard has to defend themselves in the mobile game arena in terms of monetization. Have you seen the top mobile games? Where is the outrage for them?

I'm not a Blizzard apologist by any stretch, but fuck me, its easy to just not play DI and move on.

Outrage and cancel culture is so fucking toxic with the new generation. Its so very exhausting.

No. In this case the outrage is entirely justified. Drop the 'cancel culture' fallacy please. It does not exist. CC is a poor attempt at vilifying the potential power of people collectively deciding something is not worthy of their time, support and money. The term CC is straight up anti democratic, when you follow it to its logical end. You are waaaay smarter than that. I know you are.

And I also know the gamut of mobile f2p. DI is on a whole other level. Its endgame cash system should not be accepted. It should not be defended. It should not be left as is. It is evil.

Play the story. Sure. It is fun and the gameplay is really good. But then I beseech you, delete the game from your everything because it is the most flagrantly merciless p2w system I have ever seen. I made a post in GD breaking it down. It is actually blatant and simple to understand and people are still going to get sucked into it because casinos are a thing.

Do not mistake worthy outrage for reactive emotive anti-Blizzard rhetoric. Remember: I have been pretty pro DI from the start. I got to test it. I know its a good game in its early stages. But now I also know what the rest of you believed: the whole thing is a shiny noisy front for a massive, massive scam.

The two do not cancel out. If anything, a great early game and an apex predatory p2w endgame work in beautiful, insidious harmony.

Said post: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3278135/page/14#p24641896

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wjameschan wrote:

No. In this case the outrage is entirely justified.

You are outraged over a free game that you dont have to play?

I agree with darth, its funny to watch all these people complain about immortal, its pure ignorance like Ziz's video.

People knew what the game was going to be, yet still complain. Its like they are so entitled they cannot believe someone didnt listen to their expert opinion of playing video games for X years LOL

Think beyond your own limited perspective as a gamer and you might see why this is such a big issue. Or you might not.

At any rate I consider DS44 a friend on here so while I am happy to engage with him over this...you, not really.

Have a nice day. :)

I should have been more precise. Its the "selective outrage" that is driving me crazy.

Sure the game is predatory. It's a fucking mobile game. This is absolutely not the genre where you get into holistic debates about moral standing on how a company should make their money, and the resulting revenue streams.

So the answer is to engage in a Metacritic review carpet bombing, and destroy Wyatt's twitter? How noble. Such grand internet heroes. Just do everyone a favor a go back to whatever the fuck else you were doing and just ignore DI. That's what I did, and am doing. No interest. I remember when that was enough. Now the mob wants their pound of flesh, and an effigy in their honor. Maybe Wyatt living in a box, with a wine bottle in his hand, on San Francisco street, will satisfy the outrage junkies.

And it's not just Blizz and video games. This played out in sports recently with a few golfers. Apparently dealing with a certain foreign country is frowned upon when it's an individual. Companies however, feel free. The hypocrisy is so fucking thick, its tangible. This "insert country" sucks, but where is my iPhone or trendy sneakers. Or "boy the local social systems are a nightmare, and so are the leaders." Proceeds to hold an event in a country where the social and human rights records are horrific.

Anyways these DI haters dont get much sympathy from me, in fact the misplaced anger and outrage, if you ask me, is an example of extreme naivety that is frankly, embarrassing.

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wjameschan wrote:

Think beyond your own limited perspective as a gamer and you might see why this is such a big issue. Or you might not.

At any rate I consider DS44 a friend on here so while I am happy to engage with him over this...you, not really.

Have a nice day. :)

Use the private message feature then [Removed by Support]

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Anyways these DI haters dont get much sympathy from me, in fact the misplaced anger and outrage, if you ask me, is an example of extreme naivety that is frankly, embarrassing.

Spoiler

side note I'm enjoying all these accounts you are posting on lol

Okay, I agree that some methods of response are inappropriate, but perhaps that's because of an overwhelming sense of impotence on the average user's behalf. But aren't you also being selective in which responses you focus on? And technically, that's how protest works. It has to be noticed, and simply 'doing nothing' almost never gets noticed. Believe me, I've tried. For 45 years, give or take. ;)

I think 'haters' is also an overrused term. Is it 'hating' to point out that Diablo Immortal is predatory not just in the 'oh, it's a mobile game, of course it is' sense but in a 'this is far worse than anything we mobile players have ever seen, and it's being done by a company that ISN'T particularly known for it' way as well? I say no, no it is not.

Does the game deserve to be bombed on user reviews? Well, that's up to users. Again: that's how democratic systems work. But as with larger scale, less niche democratic systems, most users know that it doesn't matter. That it takes a movement much more coordinated than individual votes or sentiments to really change things. We're like little metal filings -- virtually no real agency, but with the right magnet, off we go.

Problem is it's usually a magnet with a magnet's agenda. What cares it for the filings? :)

Anyway, I see where you're coming from but, as with other 'extreme' reactions we see in the face of either unprecedented or (sadly more common) systemic exploitation, I chalk it up to a mix of desperation and despair. And sure, there's a complete lack of empathy but why would anyone feel empathy for the sort of person who can come up with a f2p game this overtly greedy?

But let's be clear: this is not the fault of whoever worked on the game. Not the artists, not the UI designers, not the voice actors, not the writers, not the scenario designers, and so on...none of them. And that, again, is why you have fall guys like Cheng and Wilson -- they have the honour of being paid a lot of money to serve as very obvious targets, when of course the real villains are safe behind several layers of corporate removal and investment shenanigans. There is no way Cheng went into this unprepared for the vitriolic outcome. None. He's trying to slither his way past incriminating statements in the face of folks like Ziz (I only perused a few tweets but they said enough), but that won't work. Doesn't have to work.

None of it has to mean anything as long as the game/app makes money. And it has and it will.

So let people bomb it on metacritic. Let them publish their Forbes articles and make their enraged youtube videos. Anything that isn't obviously illegal (such as death threats/threats of real violence) that helps people deal with what is very likely a new status quo for Western-released mobile games is fine. Don't minimise their legitimate feelings by calling them 'haters'. I know you want to. I know it's easy to do. But it's unfair and I think there's enough unfairness in this situation as is.

As for the naivety, that's basically victim blaming. Don't do that either. It doesn't matter that we all saw (some form of) this shit coming. That doesn't make it any less reprehensible when they do it and get away with it. That's Exile thinking, dude. The whole 'oh, you got scammed? Your fault' angle? That doesn't fly in most situations. And that's because it shouldn't.

Actually, here we go, perfect example. I follow NSW police on FB, and they posted this a few days ago:



Despite that, do you think they'd not investigate and try to get someone's belongings back in the case of a home invasion/theft? That they'd say, 'well, you left it unlocked, that's your naivety, too bad so sad, lol'? Course not. Because in the real world, a crime is still a crime even if the victim made it incredibly easy to perpetrate.

Equally, victims being aware of a scam does not invalidate the scam itself as anything but a scam. I get it: you're applying common sense, and I want to agree. Personal responsibility and all that. But surely you realise this is much, much bigger than that. The precedent for baked-in p2w DI sets not 'for some shitty mobile game from China' but a fucking BLIZZARD game should have every gamer in the West very much concerned.

The fact that Blizzard have shut down any way of providing feedback should as well. I was googling about, saw a link to a post on their forum about Diablo Immortal being 'pay to win', and the page didn't exist. Not was edited; not was locked. It straight up didn't exist. They are brooking no criticism because they know they're doing the wrong thing. It's going to make them a lot of money.

It's still the wrong thing and it is not hating to point that out: vehemently, passionately, angrily, loudly. Chances are it won't change anything, but it just might. That is why people protest. Not because they KNOW it'll do any good, only that they hope and believe. And of course those who protest 'hate' the extremists as much as you do, if not more so. They also strip legitimacy from the outrage by acting like idiots, and by making legitimate protesters look like fanatics and zealots. How goes the saying? With friends like these...

Anyway, I think we're nearing a sort of stalemate here, so I'll leave it there.

Well, i saw it coming from a miiile away...

Blizz REALLY didnt get the hint when they were booed at blizzcon, it was because blizz average customer is a PC/console gamer, they are not used to deal with the BS average mobile gamer put up with

If they properly marketed it as a spinoff title that was mobile-exclusive and china-focused, they would have dodged the bullet, but alas, poor marketing

Know your audience, boys and girls, thats good business 101

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/06/09/diablo-immortal-also-has-hidden-caps-preventing-grinding-for-free/?sh=65c9f25d2648

wow.

Probably would agree that we are mostly likely at an impasse here.

That said I dont really agree that the "consumer" can play the victim card here, with no accountability of their actions, their spending habits, or managing their own personal expectations.

This notion that people were actually shocked by this monetization model are either lying, or so completely ignorant of economic realities, that not taking them seriously is probably the kindest response.

I suppose I agree this goes both ways in fielding expectations though. Blizzard and Wyatt had to know some of this blowback was coming. But again the selective outrage at Blizzard and DI compared to the rest of the mobile market makes no sense imo.

Seriously though, ignoring DI is far and away better than elimination or cancellation. It's a reductive outcome that in the end benefits very few. It's ok to say DI isnt for me, it's quite another to say it shouldn't exist and neither should the folks making it. That's anti-capitalist nonsense, and the mob reaction escalations in recent years (in many areas) is deeply troubling.

oh god no