[3.22] Gryph's Immortal Cremation - Boss Killer+Simulacrum+Blight Ravaged Farmer

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evilmindcz wrote:

Looks like massive nerf, but still doable
- melding max res can be replaced from tree
- mana reserve nerf will require more clusters
- i guess ascend/gem nerfs will be like... 25% less damage?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3292308

"

Gryphenprey wrote:

"

evilmindcz wrote:

Looks like massive nerf, but still doable
- melding max res can be replaced from tree
- mana reserve nerf will require more clusters
- i guess ascend/gem nerfs will be like... 25% less damage?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3292308

Pretty much this. if the added damage % of corpse life scaling of Cremation scales with level, it'll probably be worth actually scaling that to a degree as well (makes a 21/20 worthwhile). Currently goes from 4 to 5% by level 20.

We lose about 30% of current damage based on 5% corpse life damage.

Brittle boots are now 2% base crit instead of 5%. This makes going crit a LOT harder to accomplish easily(it was previously possible to drop the boot mod entirely, but was very expensive).

For melding, *shrug* The build was so strong even without the gem with Incandescent Heart giving 25% elemental mitigation. Could scale some aura effect/max res from tree/clusters to get back to 90% if needed.

Basically, some much needed nerfs but so far, the build looks plenty playable.

"

superarts wrote:

Question: now we have minus 50 + 5x2 + 20 = 80% increased corpse life:

The Corpse Pact Necromancer Ascendancy Passive no longer has "Corpses you Spawn have 50% increased maximum Life".
The small Corpse Life Passive Skills in the Undertaker cluster now grant "Corpses you Spawn have 5% increased maximum Life" (previously 10%).
Phantasmal Unearth: Quality now grants "Corpses spawned have 0–20% increased maximum Life" (previously 0–40%).

So previously we have 110% increased corpse life and now we have 30%, without ashes of the star? So if previously we were doing 1 x (100 + 110) x 4 = 920 damage, now we are only doing 1 * (100 + 30) * 5 = 650 damage?

And with 30 quality ashes, it would be

1 * (100 + 170) * 4 = 1080 down to
1 * (100 + 60) * 5 = 800

which means new damage with ashes with be 14% less damage than current damage without ashes?

"

Gryphenprey wrote:

"

superarts wrote:

Question: now we have minus 50 + 5x2 + 20 = 80% increased corpse life:

The Corpse Pact Necromancer Ascendancy Passive no longer has "Corpses you Spawn have 50% increased maximum Life".
The small Corpse Life Passive Skills in the Undertaker cluster now grant "Corpses you Spawn have 5% increased maximum Life" (previously 10%).
Phantasmal Unearth: Quality now grants "Corpses spawned have 0–20% increased maximum Life" (previously 0–40%).

So previously we have 110% increased corpse life and now we have 30%, without ashes of the star? So if previously we were doing 1 x (100 + 110) x 4 = 920 damage, now we are only doing 1 * (100 + 30) * 5 = 650 damage?

And with 30 quality ashes, it would be

1 * (100 + 170) * 4 = 1080 down to
1 * (100 + 60) * 5 = 800

which means new damage with ashes with be 14% less damage than current damage without ashes?

I'm going to trust your math because I'm still groggy after waking up.

But, one thing to note is that you still lose a link to enhance without ashes of the stars.

Cremation also does 25% more base damage with corpse explosions to help compensate (4%->5%)

"

superarts wrote:

"

Gryphenprey wrote:

"

evilmindcz wrote:

Looks like massive nerf, but still doable
- melding max res can be replaced from tree
- mana reserve nerf will require more clusters
- i guess ascend/gem nerfs will be like... 25% less damage?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3292308

Pretty much this. if the added damage % of corpse life scaling of Cremation scales with level, it'll probably be worth actually scaling that to a degree as well (makes a 21/20 worthwhile). Currently goes from 4 to 5% by level 20.

We lose about 30% of current damage based on 5% corpse life damage.

Brittle boots are now 2% base crit instead of 5%. This makes going crit a LOT harder to accomplish easily(it was previously possible to drop the boot mod entirely, but was very expensive).

For melding, *shrug* The build was so strong even without the gem with Incandescent Heart giving 25% elemental mitigation. Could scale some aura effect/max res from tree/clusters to get back to 90% if needed.

Basically, some much needed nerfs but so far, the build looks plenty playable.

Question: now we have minus 50 + 5x2 + 20 = 80% increased corpse life:

The Corpse Pact Necromancer Ascendancy Passive no longer has "Corpses you Spawn have 50% increased maximum Life".
The small Corpse Life Passive Skills in the Undertaker cluster now grant "Corpses you Spawn have 5% increased maximum Life" (previously 10%).
Phantasmal Unearth: Quality now grants "Corpses spawned have 0–20% increased maximum Life" (previously 0–40%).

So previously we have 110% increased corpse life and now we have 30%, without ashes of the star? So if previously we were doing 1 x (100 + 110) x 4 = 920 damage, now we are only doing 1 * (100 + 30) * 5 = 650 damage?

And with 30 quality ashes, it would be

1 * (100 + 170) * 4 = 1080 down to
1 * (100 + 60) * 5 = 800

which means new damage with ashes with be 14% less damage than current damage without ashes?

"

SupremeDrugDealer wrote:

ok so I tried to calculate what's going on and what's gonna happen and I got different results so here I explain them:

Calculating stuff as of right now:

Having a 21/23 phantasmal unearth in gloves (+10 gem lvls / + 32% quality) (+1 / +30% from ashes) would give you an unearth that spawns lvl 91 corpses, also +5 from helmet enchant, so lvl 96 corpses, looking at PoeDB this gives you a base 33105 corpse life. (this remains the same after 3.18)

we spawn Bone Archers and they have a 1.4 multiplier for corpse life (also remains the same)

as of right now, phantasmal unearth with 85% quality gives you 170% increased maximum corpse life, we also get +50% from Corpse Pact Ascendancy and +20% from Undertaker wheel small passives.

this sums up to 240% increased maximum life. (which got nerfed, I'll calculate post nerf later).

and lastly, the area lvl modifier to corpse life, which because I want to calculate Uber pinnacle boss DPS, I use area lvl 85 modifier, +125% corpse life. (remains the same)

so as of right now, with a reasonable setup as I mentioned, you get:
33105 * 1.4 * 3.4 * 2.25 = 354554 corpse life (the final number we put in PoB)

with the PoB I've got, this results in having 62,404,442 Full Dps with all 24x cremation projectiles. (not important, just here for reference so I can compare DPS before and after the patch, you can do the same with your setup)


ok so now after the patch:

lvl of unearth would stay the same, so still 33105 base corpse life.

bone archer modifiers stay the same so again 1.4 corpse life multiplier.

unearth giving 2% increased corpse life per 1% quality is going down to 1% per 1% quality, which results in having 85% increased corpse life at 85% quality, the corpse pact no longer gives any bonuses to corpse life and only +10% from Undertaker small passives.

this sums up to 95% increased corpse life after the patch.

and the area lvl modifiers stay the same so still +125% corpse life.

this results in having:
33105 * 1.4 * 1.95 * 2.25 = 203347 corpse life (the final number we put in PoB)

but, we also get a buff to cremation damage modifier, going from 4% of corpse life to 5%, so I changed PoB files (Data\Skills\act_dex.lua) and changed the 4% to 5%, this resulted in having 45,586,323 Full Dps.

this is a 27% Dps loss, with the same setup.

Some Top Quality Medical grade Copium here

the notes say Cremation is going to have a scaling, going from 4% at lvl 1 to 5% at lvl 20
if by any chance, and I really doubt it, but by any chance, this means that having 6% corpse life as damage is achievable, at lvl 25-30 ish gem lvl, this would be a Huge buff of course, for example, the same setup I mentioned above would have ~102M Full Dps.

but I don't see this happening, or maybe at gem lvl 40 which I don't think is realistically achievable.

"

Gryphenprey wrote:

"

SupremeDrugDealer wrote:

ok so I tried to calculate what's going on and what's gonna happen and I got different results so here I explain them:

Calculating stuff as of right now:

Having a 21/23 phantasmal unearth in gloves (+10 gem lvls / + 32% quality) (+1 / +30% from ashes) would give you an unearth that spawns lvl 91 corpses, also +5 from helmet enchant, so lvl 96 corpses, looking at PoeDB this gives you a base 33105 corpse life. (this remains the same after 3.18)

we spawn Bone Archers and they have a 1.4 multiplier for corpse life (also remains the same)

as of right now, phantasmal unearth with 85% quality gives you 170% increased maximum corpse life, we also get +50% from Corpse Pact Ascendancy and +20% from Undertaker wheel small passives.

this sums up to 240% increased maximum life. (which got nerfed, I'll calculate post nerf later).

and lastly, the area lvl modifier to corpse life, which because I want to calculate Uber pinnacle boss DPS, I use area lvl 85 modifier, +125% corpse life. (remains the same)

so as of right now, with a reasonable setup as I mentioned, you get:
33105 * 1.4 * 3.4 * 2.25 = 354554 corpse life (the final number we put in PoB)

with the PoB I've got, this results in having 62,404,442 Full Dps with all 24x cremation projectiles. (not important, just here for reference so I can compare DPS before and after the patch, you can do the same with your setup)


ok so now after the patch:

lvl of unearth would stay the same, so still 33105 base corpse life.

bone archer modifiers stay the same so again 1.4 corpse life multiplier.

unearth giving 2% increased corpse life per 1% quality is going down to 1% per 1% quality, which results in having 85% increased corpse life at 85% quality, the corpse pact no longer gives any bonuses to corpse life and only +10% from Undertaker small passives.

this sums up to 95% increased corpse life after the patch.

and the area lvl modifiers stay the same so still +125% corpse life.

this results in having:
33105 * 1.4 * 1.95 * 2.25 = 203347 corpse life (the final number we put in PoB)

but, we also get a buff to cremation damage modifier, going from 4% of corpse life to 5%, so I changed PoB files (Data\Skills\act_dex.lua) and changed the 4% to 5%, this resulted in having 45,586,323 Full Dps.

this is a 27% Dps loss, with the same setup.

Some Top Quality Medical grade Copium here

the notes say Cremation is going to have a scaling, going from 4% at lvl 1 to 5% at lvl 20
if by any chance, and I really doubt it, but by any chance, this means that having 6% corpse life as damage is achievable, at lvl 25-30 ish gem lvl, this would be a Huge buff of course, for example, the same setup I mentioned above would have ~102M Full Dps.

but I don't see this happening, or maybe at gem lvl 40 which I don't think is realistically achievable.

I do like seeing all the numbers. But yeah, I've said roughly 25-30% less damage than before so 27% lines up. :D

For those of us that don't know how to do the fancy POB line changes...you can also just take your final corpse life and give it a 1.25x multiplier to simulate the boost to cremation damage.

I imagine the cremation corpse scaling will be .1% every 2 levels or .05% per level. Approximately. But basically unless the scaling per level increases past level 20 it's not going to be worth opportunity costs to push the level further than what we get incidentally from Ashes/Weapon/level 21 gem as each gem level looks to be about 1% more damage.

oh, crit versions of the build will be hit harder damage-wise due to the nerf to brittle ground. -3% to base crit is pretty huge. It *IS* technically possible to crit cap without brittle ground, but it makes the lower end budget crit variants harder to do.

"

SupremeDrugDealer wrote:

"

Gryphenprey wrote:

"

SupremeDrugDealer wrote:

ok so I tried to calculate what's going on and what's gonna happen and I got different results so here I explain them:

Calculating stuff as of right now:

Having a 21/23 phantasmal unearth in gloves (+10 gem lvls / + 32% quality) (+1 / +30% from ashes) would give you an unearth that spawns lvl 91 corpses, also +5 from helmet enchant, so lvl 96 corpses, looking at PoeDB this gives you a base 33105 corpse life. (this remains the same after 3.18)

we spawn Bone Archers and they have a 1.4 multiplier for corpse life (also remains the same)

as of right now, phantasmal unearth with 85% quality gives you 170% increased maximum corpse life, we also get +50% from Corpse Pact Ascendancy and +20% from Undertaker wheel small passives.

this sums up to 240% increased maximum life. (which got nerfed, I'll calculate post nerf later).

and lastly, the area lvl modifier to corpse life, which because I want to calculate Uber pinnacle boss DPS, I use area lvl 85 modifier, +125% corpse life. (remains the same)

so as of right now, with a reasonable setup as I mentioned, you get:
33105 * 1.4 * 3.4 * 2.25 = 354554 corpse life (the final number we put in PoB)

with the PoB I've got, this results in having 62,404,442 Full Dps with all 24x cremation projectiles. (not important, just here for reference so I can compare DPS before and after the patch, you can do the same with your setup)


ok so now after the patch:

lvl of unearth would stay the same, so still 33105 base corpse life.

bone archer modifiers stay the same so again 1.4 corpse life multiplier.

unearth giving 2% increased corpse life per 1% quality is going down to 1% per 1% quality, which results in having 85% increased corpse life at 85% quality, the corpse pact no longer gives any bonuses to corpse life and only +10% from Undertaker small passives.

this sums up to 95% increased corpse life after the patch.

and the area lvl modifiers stay the same so still +125% corpse life.

this results in having:
33105 * 1.4 * 1.95 * 2.25 = 203347 corpse life (the final number we put in PoB)

but, we also get a buff to cremation damage modifier, going from 4% of corpse life to 5%, so I changed PoB files (Data\Skills\act_dex.lua) and changed the 4% to 5%, this resulted in having 45,586,323 Full Dps.

this is a 27% Dps loss, with the same setup.

Some Top Quality Medical grade Copium here

the notes say Cremation is going to have a scaling, going from 4% at lvl 1 to 5% at lvl 20
if by any chance, and I really doubt it, but by any chance, this means that having 6% corpse life as damage is achievable, at lvl 25-30 ish gem lvl, this would be a Huge buff of course, for example, the same setup I mentioned above would have ~102M Full Dps.

but I don't see this happening, or maybe at gem lvl 40 which I don't think is realistically achievable.

I do like seeing all the numbers. But yeah, I've said roughly 25-30% less damage than before so 27% lines up. :D

For those of us that don't know how to do the fancy POB line changes...you can also just take your final corpse life and give it a 1.25x multiplier to simulate the boost to cremation damage.

I imagine the cremation corpse scaling will be .1% every 2 levels or .05% per level. Approximately. But basically unless the scaling per level increases past level 20 it's not going to be worth opportunity costs to push the level further than what we get incidentally from Ashes/Weapon/level 21 gem as each gem level looks to be about 1% more damage.

oh, crit versions of the build will be hit harder damage-wise due to the nerf to brittle ground. -3% to base crit is pretty huge. It *IS* technically possible to crit cap without brittle ground, but it makes the lower end budget crit variants harder to do.

Looking at the modifiers values after the patch, I was thinking, why Necromancer? To me it seems it just gives a bunch of regen, and Chill and Shock (after the patch), if we get chill and shock from somewhere else (so we don't lose a lot of damage with sadist/hypo and other things...) we can just go ascendant and get bonuses from other ascendant nodes too?