Game Balance in Siege of the Atlas

I think it was about three, maybe four, years ago I said your game was spiraling out of your control. You went with that plan anyway. Now you just react to whatever the players concoct. Guess what... they'll come up with something else that's utterly broken in a matter of hours and complain if you change it mid-league.

Your game is too complex for you to manage this way.
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koskesh539 wrote:
not really. they added higher tiers to the flat dmg on the weapons, also the lower tiers got upped but quite a bit to compensate for the dmg loss on the gem. so no, they do not force u to get +1 on ur wand.

But if I don't add flat damage on the Wand my build will be weaker than before!

Added Cold/Lightning/Chaos gem changes:
Awakened Added Lightning Damage Support: Supported Skills now have 21 to 391 added Lightning Damage at gem level 1 (previously 23 to 445), up to 24 to 449 at gem level 5 (previously 29 to 543).

Spell added damage weapon mods:
1 added Lightning Damage to Spells now provides values of 7-20 to 255-270 on two-handed Weapons (previously 5-15 to 189-200), and 4-14 to 170-179 on one-handed Weapons (previously 3-10 to 126-133).

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TOTAL DAMAGE NERFS

Old setup without flat on the wand
min: 0 + 29 = 29
max: 0 + 543 = 543
avg: (29 + 543 / 2) = 286

Old setup with flat on the wand
min: 10 + 29 = 39
max: 133 + 543 = 676
avg: (39 + 676) / 2 = 357.5

New setup without flat on the wand
min: 0 + 24 = 24 (-17.2%)
max: 0 + 449 = 449 (-17.3%)
avg: (24 + 449) / 2 = 236.5 (-17.3%)

New setup with flat on the wand
min: 14 + 24 = 38 (-2.6%)
max: 179 + 449 = 628 (-7.1%)
avg: (38 + 628) = 333 (-6.9%)

We have lost about 17% of damage in average without flat on the Wand and 7% with flat on the Wand

It is straight nerf even with the Tier 1 Flat damage on the Wand with the top possible roll. So even I can manage to craft +2 Wand with the flat tier 1 it's still worse than in 3.16. It looks like nerf for casuals who don't care and don't do the math.

-17% dmg without wand and -7% with wand, OKAY.

YES THIS IS A BUFF (C)



good, now include the buffs to the gems to ur calculation.
GGG isn't angering "the playerbase", they are angering the vocal minority at most.
It's good to give feedback, but raging helps nobody.
They have earned some trust to not completely fuck the game over and stick to their vision, even if it is not always the popular opinion.
Trying to cater to everybody can quickly destroy the direction of the game and make it a game with no clear target audience where everyone loses.
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koskesh539 wrote:

good, now include the buffs to the gems to ur calculation.

Well, considering mentioned buff, the picture looks better:

Lightning Trap

Old setup without wand:
min: (0 + 29) * 1.7 + 466 = 515.3
max: (0 + 543) * 1.7 + 1399 = 2,322.1
avg: (515.3 + 2,322.1 / 2) = 1,418.6

Old setup with flat on the wand
min: (10 + 29) * 1.7 + 466 = 532.3
max: (133 + 543) * 1.7 + 1399 = 2,548.2
avg: (532.3 + 2,548.2) / 2 = 1,540.3

New setup without flat on the wand
min: (0 + 24) * 2.4 + 659 = 716.6 (+39%)
max: (0 + 449) * 2.4 + 1978 = 3,055.6 (+32%)
avg: (716.6 + 3,055.6) / 2 = 1,886.1 (+33%)

New setup with flat on the wand
min: (14 + 24) * 2.4 + 659 = 750.2 (+41%)
max: (179 + 449) * 2.4 + 1978 = 3,485.2 (+37%)
avg: (750.2 + 3,485.2) = 2,117.7 (+37%)

It takes into account Effectiveness of Added Damage and direct buff to the Spell. The DPS has been buffed more than 33% comparing to 3.16...

HM. Okay! I take my words back. THIS IS A BUFF not "THIS IS A BUFF(C)" anymore :)
Last edited by cursorTarget on Jan 26, 2022, 10:55:57 AM
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MrSparkle001 wrote:
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rekikyo wrote:

Just linking Multiple Totems literally brings you from 1 totem to 3.
Tree has another 1.
Templar has another 1.

That's 5.

Back 6 or so leagues ago the number was 2-3.


There is a shield mod that can give +1. I've never used it. Soul Mantle was always good enough. 5 totems is what you had to settle for if you didn't have your Soul Mantle yet, but once you did and you acquired your other items your totem build suddenly shot up in damage and could be considered good enough for some late game content.

Losing that +1 totem is a pretty big nerf to Soul Mantle. Now all it really does is free up a gem slot in exchange for having to negate the cursing. Nobody will use it now.

It went from a unique that was often a required part of a totem build to a unique only good for vendoring or just leaving on the ground.

Nobody will use it? So having a 7-link is worse than 6-link? Maybe if you have +1 curse +1 gems +spell crit body armor it would compete, but usually adding 1 link is a big damage buff, and mitigating curses is almost easy as pie now. Soul Mantle just went from mandatory Spell totem build enabler to a good early-to-mid game item, but it's still better than most 6-links out there.
Last edited by alex_disp on Jan 26, 2022, 11:03:12 AM
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koskesh539 wrote:

good, now include the buffs to the gems to ur calculation.

Well, considering mentioned buff, the picture looks better:

Lightning Trap

Old setup without wand:
min: (0 + 29) * 1.7 + 466 = 515.3
max: (0 + 543) * 1.7 + 1399 = 2,322.1
avg: (515.3 + 2,322.1 / 2) = 1,418.6

Old setup with flat on the wand
min: (10 + 29) * 1.7 + 466 = 532.3
max: (133 + 543) * 1.7 + 1399 = 2,548.2
avg: (532.3 + 2,548.2) / 2 = 1,540.3

New setup without flat on the wand
min: (0 + 24) * 2.4 + 659 = 716.6 (+39%)
max: (0 + 449) * 2.4 + 1978 = 3,055.6 (+32%)
avg: (716.6 + 3,055.6) / 2 = 1,886.1 (+33%)

New setup with flat on the wand
min: (14 + 24) * 2.4 + 659 = 750.2 (+41%)
max: (179 + 449) * 2.4 + 1978 = 3,485.2 (+37%)
avg: (750.2 + 3,485.2) = 2,117.7 (+37%)

It takes into account Effectiveness of Added Damage and direct buff to the Spell. The DPS has been buffed more than 33% comparing to 3.16...

HM. Okay! I take my words back. THIS IS A BUFF not "THIS IS A BUFF(C)" anymore :)


Good, except traps might be bad example due to the needs to the trap supports, but other than that regular skills got buffed.

You could go different support gems though
Bravo...
I think its time to dust off the atlas scrolls for the first time in what feels like a long time.

Looking forward to GGG temporarily adopting the BSG launch approach and surprise windmill-slamming the PoE 2 Launch tomorrow afternoon *wink*
Delirium ended...
But the Voices never did.
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alex_disp wrote:

Nobody will use it? So having a 7-link is worse than 6-link? Maybe if you have +1 curse +1 gems +spell crit body armor it would compete, but usually adding 1 link is a big damage buff, and mitigating curses is almost easy as pie now. Soul Mantle just went from mandatory Spell totem build enabler to a good early-to-mid game item, but it's still better than most 6-links out there.


But like someone else said, it's possible to use Uul-Netol's Vow for that and get a different body armor that doesn't require you to have to negate curses. That's not exactly as easy as acquiring Soul Mantle though.

The question becomes is it worth having a 7-link that requires investment into curse negation? Before it was a 7-link plus +1 totem which was a good tradeoff, as curse negation uses up items and skill points.

I still disagree with the nerf. I don't know what purpose it serves.
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Chill wrote:
GGG isn't angering "the playerbase", they are angering the vocal minority at most.
It's good to give feedback, but raging helps nobody.
They have earned some trust to not completely fuck the game over and stick to their vision, even if it is not always the popular opinion.
Trying to cater to everybody can quickly destroy the direction of the game and make it a game with no clear target audience where everyone loses.


The thing is their "vision" seems to change every league.

There are necessary balance changes after every league, especially when new gems and items are introduced. But they tend to go too far and wind up nerfing builds that were never considered overpowered.

And yes I'm still talking about Soul Mantle because that directly nerfs the one build I decided was fun enough to keep me playing this game.
Exerted builds receive love? Nope. Any form of improvements for slams? Nope. Any form of improvements for melee? Nope.

Lost Ark is coming out a few days after this launch.
Elden Ring.
Total War.
Dying Light 2.
Pokemon is already out.


What is GGG doing that is supposed to keep me playing this? New bosses that will be bugged for a month? New mechanics that will be incomplete for a month? GGG just sitting there expecting me to keep spending without ever putting the effort in. Prove to me you've earned my money.

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