Cryptocurrencies are a massive fraud

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xMustard wrote:

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vmt80 wrote:

It's a travesty government officials even dare speaking of climate crisis...

are people still putting any stock into the whole climate crisis bullshit? honestly? still?

well i guess i shouldn't be surprised. this is the era where so many people thought the world was going to end because computers clocks were going to change to the year 00.
Y2K. anyone remember it? LOL

The most unfortunate result of Y2K is what we see here: people who see a solved problem and conclude that there wasn’t anything to worry about, everyone was being ridiculous, and the smart thing to do is mock those pointing out problems.

The reason Y2K didn’t cause significant problems is that a lot of people spent a lot of time and effort addressing it. The lesson is “we can solve global issues if we work together and take them seriously”, not “LOL, idiots blow things out of proportion”.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

The most unfortunate result of Y2K is what we see here: people who see a solved problem and conclude that there wasn’t anything to worry about, everyone was being ridiculous, and the smart thing to do is mock those pointing out problems.

The reason Y2K didn’t cause significant problems is that a lot of people spent a lot of time and effort addressing it. The lesson is “we can solve global issues if we work together and take them seriously”, not “LOL, idiots blow things out of proportion”.

lol ok. believe whatever you want. im not going to attempt to snap you out of your delusions.

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Raycheetah wrote:

People can trade in anything they agree upon, including, apparently, digital bits arbitrarily assigned a value in another fiat currency. If you can achieve a critical mass of people willing to believe that their digital bits will continue, with no real basis, to increase in that arbitrary value, then that value will increase. A self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. The question is, when does it reach the point of saturation? When do the tulip bulbs suddenly cease to be "worth" incredible amounts of Guilders?

And with the tulips, when you lost your fortune, you could at least look at the pretty flowers. ='[.]'=

They have indeed not much of a real basis. The technology behind it is kinda ok. But take bitcoin for example, it will never be really used as a means to exchange stuff as it is too slow to do a lot of transactions. Also anyone can program a crypto into existence. It is just bits of computer code. I could create a Mickey Mouse coin, a Minnie Mouse coin, a Donald Duck coin, ..., infinite amounts of different coins can be created out of thin air.

It is just a pyramid scheme and the last suckers will get the short straw.

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KZA wrote:

Paper money is just paper.
Gold money is just metal.
Digital-bit money is just digital bits.

Currency is based off the collective belief that it has value. So long as enough people believe it has value, it does.

Paper can be burned, metal can be molded, digital can be scammed.

I'll take the metal above all else especially as it is a necessary component for even having digital bits in the first place. This entire society revolves around material resources and energy production and how to use these as intelligently and efficiently as possible.

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KZA wrote:

Paper money is just paper.
Gold money is just metal.
Digital-bit money is just digital bits.

Currency is based off the collective belief that it has value. So long as enough people believe it has value, it does.

Yep. This is vital.

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vmt80 wrote:

I should've been more specific with my reference: it's an environmental crime, pure and straight. Mining bitcoins alone uses up as much energy as my home country does in whole. And to what purpose? There is none. Zero. Absolutely nada.

This is perhaps the least woke thing I've read this week.

Yes, the way Bitcoin maintains the belief that Bitcoin has value is that even though there is no law against "counterfeiting" Bitcoin, Bitcoin is just naturally difficult to produce. Saying something digital is difficult to produce is synonymous with saying that it takes a lot of energy. So yes, lots of energy, big carbon footprint.

But costs do not exist in a vacuum. Crypto competes with alternative forms of currency. So let's take a look at, say, the US dollar.

How does the USD maintain the belief that it has value? Obviously not by convincing people that it's difficult for the government to produce — the US Congress can and will wave a wand and magic trillions into existence in order to bail out whomever they feel needs bailing out this week. So if not scarcity, then what? Well, if you want to purchase crude oil then you better be using the US dollar, because if you're not we will bomb the shit out of your entire country. The entire value of the US dollar hinges upon the concepts that 1. crude oil is a practical good and 2. you must, under threat of force, pay for crude oil in US dollars.

[Removed by Support]

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Reinhart wrote:

I'll take the metal above all else especially as it is a necessary component for even having digital bits in the first place.

So let me see if I got this straight...


Government: I have printed pieces of paper I shall call "dollars." They shall be legal tender for all debts, public and private.
Reinhart: You can't fool me. Those aren't worth any more than the paper they're printed on.
Government: Nay nay, my good sir. Behold, it says right on it that it is worth a hundredth of an ounce of silver.
Reinhart: Sheeit, government!

That's all you had to say! I'm in.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Reinhart wrote:

I'll take the metal above all else especially as it is a necessary component for even having digital bits in the first place.

So let me see if I got this straight...

Printed Circuit Boards, computer chips, connectors, keyboard membranes, capacitors. The very metal required to even create digital currencies.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Government: I have printed pieces of paper I shall call "dollars." They shall be legal tender for all debts, public and private.
Reinhart: You can't fool me. Those aren't worth any more than the paper they're printed on.
Government: Nay nay, my good sir. Behold, it says right on it that it is worth a hundredth of an ounce of silver.
Reinhart: Sheeit, government!

I don't care too much about the US dollar as I am not American. All paper currencies just get inflated, making them worth less and less over time. Some liguidity is necessary but you have to be a fool to put all your fortune in pure cash.

Look, I'm not against a medium of exchange. [Removed by Support], I'd argue it'd be ridiculous to go against liquid currencies as such. Then again, it's a whole other issue of how all the liquidity is allocated.

What I'm against is completely needless waste, and mining cryptocurrencies has no instrumental value that a social contract of money already couldn't fulfill. In fact, I'd wager trusting such quasi-public institutions as US central banking system would be a better bet than trusting crypto-miners and their associates.

[Removed by Support]

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xMustard wrote:

climate crisis bullshit

Leave the virtual idiot towers every now and then.

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Reinhart wrote:

I don't care too much about the US dollar as I am not American. All paper currencies just get inflated, making them worth less and less over time. Some liguidity is necessary but you have to be a fool to put all your fortune in pure cash.

Well my response wasn't very appropriate then.

But yes, currency isn't an investment. And although I get that some places do take Bitcoin as payment, let's be real — crypto isn't really much of a currency now, and might never really be much of one. Right now, the economic function of crypto is quite similar to that of precious metals — theoretically you could pay for things with gold coins, but only theoretically.