Totems and new skills

GGG is careful with wording. (Most of the time)

"on hit"
vs
"your hits"

"On hit" works with totems.
"Your hits" does not.

So, a corrupted glove with "curse enemies with elemental weakness on hits" works with totems.

But this new skill will not work with totems.


You could always try Arcanist Brand.

"

Odif wrote:

"On hit" works with totems.
"Your hits" does not.
.

This is a common misconception that can be used as a rule of thumb sometimes, but not always. Read the descriptions of Elemental Equilibrium and Elemental Overload as pointed out on the first page of this thread.

PraetorianMKII puts it very well on the first page:

"

PraetorianMKII wrote:

Yes, they are! They are your skills, but its not your hits, totems/mines/traps are doing their hits using your skill. And since they do not have your buffs, there is no stat on them that says "your hits are applying corrupted blood", so they do not.

So actually, when there are questions of Totems/Traps/Mines getting the ability to do this or that, the key question to ask is: does the ability to do this or that attach to your skills or some other aspect? As evidenced by Mark_GGG's responses, similar to Heralds, the Corrupting Blood application is not a property that can be added to skills directly, but instead is granted via a buff on you. Totesm/traps/mines don't have your buffs, so they don't get the "your hits" property in this case even though they get the "your hits" properties in the case of Elemental Equilibrium and (part of) Elemental Overload.

"

Odif wrote:

GGG is careful with wording. (Most of the time)

ok, maybe you can get away with saying that because you said "most of the time"

GGG is like the english language. I before E except after C *rule. except for this and this and this oh and that one too oh and...

i constantly get confused by the term YOU in PoE because of how wildly inconsistent and crazy it is throughout so many mechanics, items, etc.

another thing which is stupid are things like "nearby" or "recently" and crap like that. they have rules which are followed MOST of the time but there are always exceptions.

the problem is the exceptions are not listed anywhere, usually. its quite difficult to figure this stuff out.

"

Odif wrote:

GGG is careful with wording. (Most of the time)

"on hit"
vs
"your hits"

"On hit" works with totems.
"Your hits" does not.

So, a corrupted glove with "curse enemies with elemental weakness on hits" works with totems.

But this new skill will not work with totems.


You could always try Arcanist Brand.

This is actually not true. Totems use your skills, and thus hits made by totems are also your hits. This is why nodes like Cold Conduction work with totems.

What they are not, however, are instances of you hitting. So the things that outright don't work are when an affix says "when you hit", because you are not hitting just because your skills are. In those cases you are still the one that has to produce the hit to trigger that affix.

Hmm, it should work with brands(also known as better totems) thou. Which begs the question:

Does the life cost will be paid every cast of brands or just the initial cast? And does the charge system will only count when you cast the brand, or every time the brand casts the skill?

Edit: I am talking about reap line: "with each swing it gains a charge that scales it's damage up and increases the life cost". Also, is reap an attack or a spell lol?

Logic is not a strong point of developers. GGG in particular has struggled with explaining things properly, using English improperly, and almost never being consistent between two forms of the same thing.

This really should be something they consolidate and work out soon, hopefully before PoE 2, just like they had to do with some game mechanics for 3.0.

Much of this is being held back by old tech and code, like how the game handles elemental conversion in only one direction, because it handles elemental conversion in a direction. And why they had to keep adjusting the wording and function of things like passive tree damage modifiers that are nonspecific ( physical damage ), or arbitrarily specific ( with melee skills ), or entirely misleading ( with ___ weapons ). Because they're trying to be overtly complex to exclude 1 thing from getting that bonus ...by being entirely obtuse.

There's no reason why a totem should not be granted this buff and work just like it would on you, except they just don't have the proper design to let it work ...or they don't want it to work, but don't want to go through the effort to actually exclude it from totems. See also: Constantly having gems with exclusions for mines/traps/totems/minions/triggers/instant/etc. skills for no real reason.

Hence, this game sorely needs to be brought back into a stable and coherent state, as if it was an original first game design; rather than all of this spaghetti code over the years and just trying to peace things together with tape so that it technically works.

At this point spell totem should just get deleted from the game. Too many mechanics work way better for brands/traps/mines or self cast. Spell totem is just inferior on every level and has all these limitations on top. Sad really. I enjoyed the playstyle quite a lot while they still at least could get to 80%-ish of other skills.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

ekaye wrote:

Yes, why is "fiddle with the target's resistances" an "offensive stat", but "inflict damage over time" not? How is an aura granting damage to you different from Corrupting Fever granting "apply corrupting blood on hit" to you?

Corrupting Fever is not granting "apply corrupted blood on hit" to you.

The coorrupting fever skill puts a buff on you, and tracks what you do while you have the buff. The skill notices when you hit things, and that causes it to calculate a corrupted blood debuff, based on it's own skill stats, and apply that. The corrupted blood is not applied by your hit (which is with another skill), it's applied by corruping fever, because it needs to have the stats of that skill.

This is exactly the same as all the heralds, which likewise put a buff on you and then actively do things in repsonse to what you do.

You mean it could have just been herald of blood? Is it too late to make it a herald and name it herald of blood or jam herald of blood in somehow because herald of blood sounds awesome?

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

ekaye wrote:

Yes, why is "fiddle with the target's resistances" an "offensive stat", but "inflict damage over time" not? How is an aura granting damage to you different from Corrupting Fever granting "apply corrupting blood on hit" to you?

Corrupting Fever is not granting "apply corrupted blood on hit" to you.

The coorrupting fever skill puts a buff on you, and tracks what you do while you have the buff. The skill notices when you hit things, and that causes it to calculate a corrupted blood debuff, based on it's own skill stats, and apply that. The corrupted blood is not applied by your hit (which is with another skill), it's applied by corruping fever, because it needs to have the stats of that skill.

This is exactly the same as all the heralds, which likewise put a buff on you and then actively do things in repsonse to what you do.

Coukd we get a wording change then? Herald specifically say “this skill does the action”, so could we change this to saying “when you hit an enemy this skill applies corrupted blood on the enemy”?
Because as it is right now my mind goes to thinking that this will be increased by brand damage if its applied with a brand.

"

arknath wrote:

At this point spell totem should just get deleted from the game. Too many mechanics work way better for brands/traps/mines or self cast. Spell totem is just inferior on every level and has all these limitations on top. Sad really. I enjoyed the playstyle quite a lot while they still at least could get to 80%-ish of other skills.

exacly, and poe.ninja usage don't lie :