Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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pipi101 wrote:

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wannex wrote:

Best decision ever taken, harvest craft was absolutely insane. It nullified the core game itself, the orbs that we drop from any type of content, that we were supposed to use to craft our items to progress. I don't understand why people complain, harvest was something that simplified the game at the point of ruining it. The change was an absolute need.

you are using orbs to craft gear?

He is surely slamming hundreds of exalts with closed eyes every league and he enjoys that.

This. No response is very blizzardesque.

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JanusJato wrote:

The problem is it won't really hurt the no-livers and it also would probably not hurt the newer players that have not much knowledge of the game. All people inbetween will be hurt more or less. Funny point is, that if less people play after this, this might hurt the streamer part of the no-livers, because this also would mean less people watching their content. But because GGG did do nerfes in the past and the playerbase did not significantly shrink - they might not see this as a risk, because if it does not shrink they profit because people will view their "cool" stuff.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/kz5nub/ritual_is_currently_crushing_all_poe_league/

If Steam's active player numbers are anything to go by, Ritual is showing higher player retention in month 3 than most leagues do in month 2. Subjectively, I'm pretty sure anyone playing on Standard/Ritual can attest that player activity is up this league. I believe this is largely due to Harvest, but I'd be happy to reverse my stance if next league manages similar player retention and build diversity numbers.

No-lifers do not generate wealth in a vacuum — fewer people playing for shorter periods impacts everyone. I don't think the ultra casuals who play 4 hours a week and don't engage in trade are relevant here, because POE is a game built and balanced around its economy.

Alternatively, you could choose to ignore these numbers and consider ~Google Trends Staying Power~ as a proxy for player retention/engagement instead :).

It is, but consider their position. They have just succeeded in pissing off almost the entire player base. There has never been more outrage at a decision in the history of the game. They are at a crossroads now. If they act like blizzard and roll over for the player base they will keep people, but at a cost to the core functionality of the game. People can cite loyalty all they want, but everyone knows the truth....when it is no longer fun, people quit. The short term gain (appeasing the player base) will destroy long term profits when people craft out the best stuff and reach the best "end game" one can hope for. Then those people will turn around and RMT the stuff (we know this is true) to other players who will then feel a sense of completion and quit as well repeating the cycle.

Right now they are desperately trying to figure out how to appease the players without seeming weak, yet without screwing over the base functionality of the game. They have to plan their next move VERY carefully because they won't get another. I saw this recently in an Everquest Emulator server (rise of zek 2.0). The player base whined about something, so the GM's created a massive change to the game system in favor of them. Those that didn't want the change threw their hands up in degust and said "screw you we quit" and they did. Then trying to repent of their decision they changed it back. The people that left didn't come back and the players they had originally supported got pissed said "screw you" and left as well. The game is now officially dead.

If GGG's next announcement fails soothe over the player base enough, or does it too much they'll deal a massive blow to player base, the same way blizzard did with Diablo 3 (I came to PoE because I heard from friends that blizzard backstabbed the economy by yanking and nerfing valued items on the AH, rather unforgivable). GGG will respond, right now that response probably has their highest priority. One word out of place will have nasty consequences. Just give them time and let them reach a decision.

the game isn't hard, you just need to spend too much time to buy gear needed for endgame, some people don't have that time, so all of you guys acting like you are pros or something (telling others to "git gud"), you aren't, you just have a lot of time to waste, and harvest can help people to craft op gear for off-meta builds, stop praising you huge skill tree, 1000 skills etc. when there is like 5 viable (not too expensive) builds. not everyone is into those builds, and you can't earn enough for other builds you might like

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but at a cost to the core functionality of the game.

I still don't see how harvest breaks the game for others. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

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Sodawasser wrote:

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but at a cost to the core functionality of the game.

I still don't see how harvest breaks the game for others. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

"Other people are getting good items but they have to trade crafts in an inefficient* way for it and I dont wannnnnnna"

*Yet somehow too efficient because it makes crafting "too easy" (I'm still waiting for one of these whiteknights to link their 4T0 gear in every slot)

Harvest does not ruin the game.
Harvest does not ruin the economy.

It does impact on prices of course and hardly bloats to the faces of the monopolists big crafters.

That is all. Nobody other than this very few percentage of people are not impacted.

PS and of course harvest is not good for those greedy nolife streamers. Exactly those that say this nerfs will ot touch them. They must be eating any shit the game throws at them OR they are paid for their work.
How is the feeling of being paid bit***?

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pcfd wrote:

can you tell me if you planing fix trade and crafting in next 2 leagues?
if not i will just stop waste my time and uninstall game.

I can tell you that I have been waiting for a loot, trade, and crafting fix for over 6 years and it hasnt come.

If you go back and read the previous manifestos you start to realize that they will never make the game that many of us were hoping they would. I too used to live in denial, with the belief that someday they would change their minds. Then I realized it was me who needed to change and so I uninstalled the game. It was hard as it was my go to game but I'm done hoping and waiting for them to make a game they clearly dont believe in.

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XavierLX wrote:

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pcfd wrote:

can you tell me if you planing fix trade and crafting in next 2 leagues?
if not i will just stop waste my time and uninstall game.

I can tell you that I have been waiting for a loot, trade, and crafting fix for over 6 years and it hasnt come.

If you go back and read the previous manifestos you start to realize that they will never make the game that many of us were hoping they would. I too used to live in denial, with the belief that someday they would change their minds. Then I realized it was me who needed to change and so I uninstalled the game. It was hard as it was my go to game but I'm done hoping and waiting for them to make a game they clearly dont believe in.

The most obious thing is that the game that GGG set out to have as in "be played forever" is not viable in the very long term.

You can't have things stacked upon each other till infinity.
We already know that Maven is "the first to arrive" so we can assume that we will be meeting family, "classmates" etc. of Maven soon.

This produces power creep, cause of course they need to be stronger. And good luck beating Maven with Uniques and Tabula as it is right now.

GGG knows that they have to introduce horizontal progression aka. Heist, which was a good attempt.

Because you can't have as many variations of "killing mobs in circles" as you might think.
- Growing Circle - Breach
- Circle not being a circle - Legion - with 5 way being also a circle
- Ritual - a circle with invisible borders

and killing mobs free roaming the map:
- Harbingers
- Bestiary
- Exiles
etc.
you get my point.

And maps have to be also easier to obtain because there aren't 100 of them anymore but close to 200.
Where is the end, where do we go from here? 500 Maps? Unique Weapon Skill Trees?

That's why POE2 is being made, as you can't have infinite progress. And that is also why they don't want gear to be made better on average.

So it's not only about Harvest being there or not being there, it's about what plan is there for the next leagues etc. Cause we all know it can't go like that forever.