Last Epoch is definitely better than POE now, and here's why.....

I cant even convince myself to try LE even after losing 200 ex in uhc.

Ofcourse it's all opinion but this thread is trash and every streamer I've seen review LE.. yeah theres a reason no watches it and barely anyone plays it

music is completely subjective, you lost any and all credibility by stating otherwise

I want to be clear that I'll be buying this game sometime this summer and I'm not here to shit on it - however - the next time you see someone tell you how great LE and/or the devs are over there let me tell you what I read on the heels of their patch today between steam and the forums:

Where is <insert feature here> that I've been waiting for and isn't in this patch?

Where is <insert bug fix here> that has existed for X time?

I disagree with the way X was nerfed - this 'kills' the build (they haven't played the patch for a second yet, just knee jerk reacting).

Why is this change listed as a bugfix? One of your devs said it was working as intended in the discord. Don't hide balance changes behind 'bugfix language'!

Some of the affixes on gear are 'undesirable troll affixes' and shouldn't roll.

Why is difficulty being increased?

Why are you nerfing baseline mana regen?!? This is terrible design! "It’s like you guys looked at POE and saw their bullshit and were like hmmmm them fucking up is why we had a sudden explosion of sales, let’s copy their fuck ups!"

Sound familiar?

So yeah, the lesson is the next time someone tells you the grass is greener in other games, mark these words and remember that there are loud minorities in every community, the only difference with LE right now is that it is and will be for a while in a 'honeymoon' phase where jaded thousand-hour vets aren't burned out enough to be cynical and toxic...yet.

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innervation wrote:

the next time you see someone tell you how great LE and/or the devs are over there let me tell you what I read on the heels of their patch today between steam and the forums

Or you could simply look in the in game chat and see what people think about it. The forums are full of people that think it's a finished game and not a work in progress.



Those are the developers of the game taking their time to talk with the people playing. They answer questions and talk about all those issues you mentioned.

When was the last time you saw Chris Wilson in G1 talking with everybody about what's going on?

That makes the grass a shade bit greener for this gamer.

Honestly, I don't believe anyone is suicidal enough to try to talk in PoE's general chat.

More specifically, its much easier to communicate when your community is smaller. The bigger the game becomes, the more worthless this exercise becomes. For reference, the creator of Dota, who presumably still works at Valve on Dota 2, refuses to show his face or name and for a very good reason.

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Adrenicrome wrote:

When was the last time you saw Chris Wilson in G1 talking with everybody about what's going on?

That makes the grass a shade bit greener for this gamer.

Back in Closed Beta and I remember it impressed me quite a bit back then.

As for LE, it's not better than PoE, but it reminds me how PoE was in closed beta quite a bit, but I would say it's quite a bit more polished than what PoE was back then.

I think it's coming along quite nicely and worth a try.

"

Adrenicrome wrote:

"

innervation wrote:

the next time you see someone tell you how great LE and/or the devs are over there let me tell you what I read on the heels of their patch today between steam and the forums

Or you could simply look in the in game chat and see what people think about it. The forums are full of people that think it's a finished game and not a work in progress.

Those are the developers of the game taking their time to talk with the people playing. They answer questions and talk about all those issues you mentioned.

When was the last time you saw Chris Wilson in G1 talking with everybody about what's going on?

That makes the grass a shade bit greener for this gamer.

Pure honeymoon phase analysis. It's only a matter of time before this chain goes from 'great communication' to shit because at the end of the day they aren't going to do what the community wants. As nerfs outpace buffs, as people's pet builds get broken due to game evolution or balance changes, as good faith answers are bookmarked and brought up years later to be rubbed in the devs faces there won't be anyone left singing that tune at some point. And it won't be because the LE devs changed so much as another community who doesn't understand game design lashes out about their pet issues not being addressed to their satisfaction.

I already listed some lines that we already see in PoE.

Consider the AMA with Judd last week

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/nh0z4g/hey_reddit_im_judd_cobler_eleventh_hour_games_ceo/

Tell me the community isn't going to bring up some of these answers later when development doesn't go the way they're picturing it in their minds.

As illustrated by the lines I already listed, they're going to go through the exact same cycle as this game

communication --> feedback
devs do what they think is right for the game --> players interpret this as devs 'ignoring feedback'

and every time that disconnect happens players get more cynical and vitriolic because they just CANNOT accept that the devs disagreeing with them equates to anything other than the devs being incompetent and ignoring them.

That's when communication will get pulled back by the devs because there is nothing left to say and players will complain there is less (or no) communication. Finding positive feedback for the game or changes right now cannot prove me wrong. Time will, however, prove me right.

One of the most upvoted questions in that thread is asking if the devs will add more auto cast spells because they would be a 'major QoL addition'. They're even more delusional about what QoL is than the PoE player base. Whenever there is this kind of disconnect between what players think the game should be and what the devs are going to make, communication will always be a downhill slope with a landing point of the devs drawing back into their shell.

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innervation wrote:

It's only a matter of time before this chain goes from 'great communication' to shit because at the end of the day they aren't going to do what the community wants.

That's called projecting. You're basing an event that hasn't even happened yet off of your experience with this game. It's unhealthy to get caught in this tunneled way of seeing things. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

As for the auto cast issue. There was a slew of videos showing how to make builds CENTERED around using numlock to auto cast. The build maker even says that it's almost a guarantee these builds will be changed because of that.

A bunch of people watch the videos, design their build the same way, but choose to ignore the warning about it most likely being changed in the future. It gets changed, and low and behold, Johnny auto cast is upset now that it doesn't work anymore oh no.

There are no buffs or nerfs while a game is being designed lol. This is so silly to me. You have to wait until the devs say ok, this is done. Here is 1.0 the official release! Then, anything after that yes will be considered your buffs or nerfs or whatever else makes you mad. But until it's done, it's all just testing the waters to see what works.

Expecting anything more is going to make you lose sleep unnecessarily.

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Adrenicrome wrote:

"

innervation wrote:

It's only a matter of time before this chain goes from 'great communication' to shit because at the end of the day they aren't going to do what the community wants.

That's called projecting. You're basing an event that hasn't even happened yet off of your experience with this game. It's unhealthy to get caught in this tunneled way of seeing things. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

As for the auto cast issue. There was a slew of videos showing how to make builds CENTERED around using numlock to auto cast. The build maker even says that it's almost a guarantee these builds will be changed because of that.

A bunch of people watch the videos, design their build the same way, but choose to ignore the warning about it most likely being changed in the future. It gets changed, and low and behold, Johnny auto cast is upset now that it doesn't work anymore oh no.

There are no buffs or nerfs while a game is being designed lol. This is so silly to me. You have to wait until the devs say ok, this is done. Here is 1.0 the official release! Then, anything after that yes will be considered your buffs or nerfs or whatever else makes you mad. But until it's done, it's all just testing the waters to see what works.

Expecting anything more is going to make you lose sleep unnecessarily.

I'm trying to level-set people's expectations - that's healthy, not unhealthy.

Unhealthy is packing up a bunch of baggage from a game you have a love/hate relationship with, carrying that baggage to another game in the genre, then inevitably flipping out when you find out the grass isn't as green as it looks in the pastures of your new fling.

This isn't about 'my' experience. It's what I've seen of other people's experience. Who is playing LE? Either ex-PoE people, or the same type of person that would pick up PoE in the first place. It's a projection in the sense that it's a prediction. If you're saying I'm 'projecting' psychologically you couldn't be more wrong. I'm not the type of person I'm describing here, from either community.

And of course you're right that people treating an LE beta aren't being fair - that only adds to my point. Not only do I think dev-community relations will follow the same track as PoE, but they might speed run it given the kind of gripes I'm seeing already.

The only confounding factor here is the box price of the game. On the one hand EHG won't be as tied to every content release being make-or-break for their salaries (assuming proper management). On the other hand, that could exacerbate complaints because 'free game: no bitching' cannot and will not ever be a motto over there.

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innervation wrote:

Not only do I think dev-community relations will follow the same track as PoE, but they might speed run it given the kind of gripes I'm seeing already.

It is possible, absolutely. I'm not saying it's a guarantee to last either. All these things change and develop in ways we can't always predict. Which is why I just want to enjoy it for what it is. In the moment, here and now. While it is good, and before the masses storm it and try to tear it apart with visions of how it should be.

I'm a betaholic. I try and sign into any alpha or beta phase that I can. I enjoy seeing games in that state before it's done and helping with trying to get things adjusted right. A pattern I've seen is people buying the game without even reading that it's in beta. Become extremely upset with what they see, and then make it a personal mission to accuse the developers of all kinds of stuff.
It's disheartening to watch, but it happens.

I'm very curious to see how it works out with the box price model. They might be onto something or it might backfire. Or maybe PoE and LE join forces and become PathofEpoch and go completely Virtual. It's exciting to see what happens either way.