ok I started this build.. but now I see on POB that you have 10 gems linket in the chest armor.. how ?????
Of course 4 gems are disabled when you take a look.
It shall show that you can enable special supports for:
pierce for mapping
awakened fork for blights
viciuous projectiles as long you miss the awakened viciuous gem
vile toxins singletarget
awakened fire when you need some lesser manamultiplier
...like explained in "the dirty scorpion tail"
Last edited by Chromino on Oct 25, 2021, 3:58:51 PM
ok I started this build.. but now I see on POB that you have 10 gems linket in the chest armor.. how ?????
Of course 4 gems are disabled when you take a look.
It shall show that you can enable supports for:
pierce for mapping
awakened fork for blights
viciuous projectiles as long you miss the awakened viciuous gem
vile toxins singletarget
awakened fire when you need some lesser manamultiplier
like explained also in "the dirty scorpion tail"
sorry.. yea I see that only 6 are enabled.. ok I dont see that on the POB what gem is for what.. thanks for the info :)
Arakaali's fang seems to be increasing in price. Now its upto 5.5ex. Do you guys think price will start dropping a week in?
Thankfully, HoAg seems to be clearing decently on its own. I'm supplementing the single target with 4L skeletons for now. Initially, mapping was horrible but somehow I scraped some currency to get aegis aurora and then it was fine. The ES on block made me go instantly from squishy AF to mostly unkillable. Then I farmed for a Skin of the Lords - got one with Ele overload on it for 40c (the notable is inconsequential - most important was get a cheap Skin with a notable that doesnt harm us). Today, farmed to buy two circle of nostalgia rings with reservation and crawler damage and now the build feels comfortable. Apart from randomly popping in scourge at 150 plus stacks lol.
Kinda annoying Arakaali is so expensive, since I came to this build mainly looking for a good build using spiders. Overall though, really fun tanky playstyle.
Last edited by asmzn2009 on Oct 25, 2021, 4:10:25 PM
Yo, I've been playing super squishy occultists for too many leagues. Already have 140 deaths this league and just want to find a build that doesn't die 5 times per map and scales into lategame. This one seems interesting, but which one should I choose: This or Vatinas? What are the pros / cons between these two? Any other builds that I could consider? I am so close to skipping whole league right now that third 10 act grind would be too much...
Yo, I've been playing super squishy occultists for too many leagues. Already have 140 deaths this league and just want to find a build that doesn't die 5 times per map and scales into lategame. This one seems interesting, but which one should I choose: This or Vatinas? What are the pros / cons between these two? Any other builds that I could consider? I am so close to skipping whole league right now that third 10 act grind would be too much...
Hi Tarzan, Templar of the jungle,
as CI with shield and helmet you get one oft the most tanky build on the tree as managuardian.
Some page before, 238, I tried rating some differences in the stats and style:
Hello!
just wanted to ask is there much difference in survivability and clear speed between Vatinas spiders HoP build and this version?
Hi Spartan407,
this build is build up on Vatinas (and hitmantb and Shadowtitan's) older builds in many components like basic guardiangear shield aegis aurora, but tries to optimize the pathing further with clusters and more keynotes and a lot different skills like grace and frostshield.
- In clear speed the HoA has 5-7 long ranged 4x splitting (or for blight maps also forking projectiles) hitting 20 up to 70 targets with each projectile hitting for 6-7 M and more (up to 14M).
- The Hop has 4-5 melee minions, no splash, only slam with cooldown, each HoP slams with around 1.4 M.
- HoA has 100-200% added movement speed, HoP (slow) cyclone
This build reaches fullgeared 7.6 k es, buffed 3.1 k es on 75%/60% full 100% damagereductions block, uses with armour+ es mastery powered up wicked ward and divine shield.
The HoP build offers around 7.5 k es and buffed 1.8k es/ block 75%/75% glancing blows low 35% damagereductions and divine shield when I'm informed correct.
HoP offers better meatshields and moving of cycloning, in all other stats HoA build offers more defences and much more damage.
Like freekiix writes, on page 50 I tried to compare some more stats much more detailed in 3.14:
Spoiler
1) 70000 armour of Vatinas build of HoP against 140000 armour this HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. This is important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 140000 Ar of HoA is fitting much better with often 40% more physical damage reduction than only 70000 Ar).
2) 1400 against 2800 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better
3) HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony and virulences and 15 witherstacks, HoP offers only reduced cooldowns on medium clusters for their attacks.
4) HoP Sentinels dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, and the crawler has much more area of damage with his long ranged projectiles also. You can scale up with 55-60 virulences easy against a small loss of added quality of life on one medium cluster or without double curses. Then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars reach 3 mill. damage more as a typical HoP set-up. With cyclone you can move in small melee range, with spellecho of this Arachnophilia HoA build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.3 seconds to cast 2 of them. So cyclone is a bit smoother in movement.
5) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more, minimum around 4 times more total damage on mobs like in delve, blight, delirium, rituals or other high density areas. Count 4 x dps in mapping with it's tail projectilesattack (it is the HoA Standard attack with no cooldown) and pierce support and helmetenchant offers another 2x projectiles. HoP charge and slam attacks have cooldowns and only a small area of damage and no longe range. HoP offers no splash, only small melee area of damage and no pierce.
(For better comparing with equal defences of both builds count "hatred" in place of it's defensive "grace" for HoA in: 11-13 mill. total shaper- damage. HoP cannot obtain more auras because of not enough reduced manareservation. HoP must change gear, lower it's HoP-supports, change around 7 passives and use a different annoint to get more mana for another set-up. HoA has the possibility to switch in a second Circle of Nostalgia for more mana and dps and 8 up to 14 mill. damage shaper- singletarget damage and looses only frostwall for around 10.5 mill. damage or one Quality of life-skill and two passives (like raze and pillage or rotten claws) for around 12.9 mill. shaper-damage and 160 mill. mapping-damage.)
HoP is in single target around equal or around 10% increased damage, but only when The Arachnophobiacs are using their most defensive setup with 2-3 x more ehp than the HoP. The HoP movement is 60% slower and has less damageuptimes (first you have to reach melee the target with it cycloning). HoA can also change pierce if it is wanted for better singletarget, switch ring or support with hatred or freeding frenzy, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for raising damage in this build.
6) The weak spots like degens, aoe and not blockable hits are equal and are the same in both builds. HoA has in his setup an additional sulphurflask for the cooldowns of time of need and vaal discipline.
And of course don't forget numbers and factors of total damage taken, multiple mapmods, crits, etc. :
The more dodge, vaal grace, pantheon, evasion, phasing, overcapped resistances when you are debuffed and doublecurse (when you choose a defensive second one) of the allstars are not only a bit better than the very, very fine build of Vatinas, to reduce total damage taken:
For example you get often multiples damagetypes and sources, degen and hits or aoe at the same time of one boss or one mob and you have to count the total damage taken in these encounters and moments. And here the Agonyca Allstars are shining and charming hot with double and tripple ehp for all damage types.
7) I don't want forget two advantages of HoP in ehp and defence here at this comparing the tails and arms:
-the Sentinels can take damage as meat shield and can taunt. But only melee and they die fast in some encounters, maps and bosses and there are some disadvantages in playstyle as wrote before and in the build of the allstars spoiler "HoP". So for example HoP have also to deal with chained projectiles and so this advantage is in some other situations very dangerous.
When HoA takes Summon Phantasms-Support in the Allstars have 11 taunting and hindering and meatshielding Phantasms-minions too.
- you can move while cycloning. But as said before, for hard bosses the 2 possibilties of HoA's hybrid style: melee and ranged raising the Herald, is best to deal with high lvl 10x maven invitations, shaper, ueberatziri etc.) and with HoA you can easy switch to cyclone also. The Agonyca Allstars are able to stand outside high damage areas of bosses and stack the virulences ranged. Old HoP must cyclone melee in these damagepeaks.
When the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars take "storm brand" in they obtain almost the same freedom of movement and still don't need to to move into melee distance.
8) Fortify's 20% damagereduction of melee HoP is a minimum of 50% weaker compared against HoA divergent frost shield 30% dr and it's 60% dr against ranged attacks, and the added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs.
Combined with bodyguards/ knockback frostshield's 60% dr get very often op, and much better than fortify's 20% dr.
And also HoP has to attack and hit to trigger fortify, frostshield is triggered also ranged on stun and block and don't need to hit or attack.
9) Other managuardian builds get into problems when their molten shell, guardian skill or vaal discipline is in cooldown - the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars start then with their dodge and spelldodge of vaal grace and withering step for these cooldowns.
10) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, evasion, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, double curses, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc.
Overall
Total the Arachnophobia Allstars have double and tripple ehp against all damagetypes with their 17 walls of defences, and against physical damage quadruple ehp.
You have circa 4× more multipletarget damage and 3x more mappingspeed and 2x more substain / es on block. You loose around 5% singletarget but you can easy balance your damage up if you want to.
You can try both herald-styles easy because both gears work on both herald-mainskills.
Switch perhaps only cyclone with ball-liightnings and circle-rings.
Both styles are very much fun and Vatinas guide is amazing and very well written and explaining all important mechanics quite good!
Last edited by Chromino on Oct 26, 2021, 5:55:58 AM
Yo, I've been playing super squishy occultists for too many leagues. Already have 140 deaths this league and just want to find a build that doesn't die 5 times per map and scales into lategame. This one seems interesting, but which one should I choose: This or Vatinas? What are the pros / cons between these two? Any other builds that I could consider? I am so close to skipping whole league right now that third 10 act grind would be too much...
Hi Tarzan, Templar of the jungle,
as CI with shield and helmet you get one oft the most tanky build on the tree as managuardian.
Some page before, 238 I tried rating some differences in the stats and style:
Hello!
just wanted to ask is there much difference in survivability and clear speed between Vatinas spiders HoP build and this version?
Hi Spartan407,
this build is build up on Vatinas (and hitmantb and Shadowtitan's) older builds in many components like basic guardiangear shield aegis aurora, but tries to optimize the pathing further with clusters and more keynotes and a lot different skills like grace and frostshield.
- In clear speed the HoA has 5-7 long ranged 4x splitting (or for blight maps also forking projectiles) hitting 20 up to 70 targets with each projectile hitting for 6-7 M and more (up to 14M).
- The Hop has 4-5 melee minions, no splash, only slam with cooldown, each HoP slams with around 1.4 M.
- HoA has 100-200% added movement speed, HoP (slow) cyclone
This build reaches fullgeared 7.6 k es, buffed 3.1 k es on 75%/60% full 100% damagereductions block, uses with armour+ es mastery powered up wicked ward and divine shield.
The HoP build offers around 7.5 k es and buffed 1.8k es/ block 75%/75% glancing blows low 35% damagereductions and divine shield when I'm informed correct.
HoP offers better meatshields and moving of cycloning, in all other stats HoA build offers more defences and much more damage.
Like freekiix writes, on page 50 I tried to compare some more stats much more detailed in 3.14:
Spoiler
1) 70000 armour of Vatinas build of HoP against 140000 armour this HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. This is important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 140000 Ar of HoA is fitting much better with often 40% more physical damage reduction than only 70000 Ar).
2) 1400 against 2800 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better
3) HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony and virulences and 15 witherstacks, HoP offers only reduced cooldowns on medium clusters for their attacks.
4) HoP Sentinels dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, and the crawler has much more area of damage with his long ranged projectiles also. You can scale up with 55-60 virulences easy against a small loss of added quality of life on one medium cluster or without double curses. Then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars reach 3 mill. damage more as a typical HoP set-up. With cyclone you can move in small melee range, with spellecho of this Arachnophilia HoA build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.3 seconds to cast 2 of them. So cyclone is a bit smoother in movement.
5) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more, minimum around 4 times more total damage on mobs like in delve, blight, delirium, rituals or other high density areas. Count 4 x dps in mapping with it's tail projectilesattack (it is the HoA Standard attack with no cooldown) and pierce support and helmetenchant offers another 2x projectiles. HoP charge and slam attacks have cooldowns and only a small area of damage and no longe range. HoP offers no splash, only small melee area of damage and no pierce.
(For better comparing with equal defences of both builds count "hatred" in place of it's defensive "grace" for HoA in: 11-13 mill. total shaper- damage. HoP cannot obtain more auras because of not enough reduced manareservation. HoP must change gear, lower it's HoP-supports, change around 7 passives and use a different annoint to get more mana for another set-up. HoA has the possibility to switch in a second Circle of Nostalgia for more mana and dps and 8 up to 14 mill. damage shaper- singletarget damage and looses only frostwall for around 10.5 mill. damage or one Quality of life-skill and two passives (like raze and pillage or rotten claws) for around 12.9 mill. shaper-damage and 160 mill. mapping-damage.)
HoP is in single target around equal or around 10% increased damage, but only when The Arachnophobiacs are using their most defensive setup with 2-3 x more ehp than the HoP. The HoP movement is 60% slower and has less damageuptimes (first you have to reach melee the target with it cycloning). HoA can also change pierce if it is wanted for better singletarget, switch ring or support with hatred or freeding frenzy, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for raising damage in this build.
6) The weak spots like degens, aoe and not blockable hits are equal and are the same in both builds. HoA has in his setup an additional sulphurflask for the cooldowns of time of need and vaal discipline.
And of course don't forget numbers and factors of total damage taken, multiple mapmods, crits, etc. :
The more dodge, vaal grace, pantheon, evasion, phasing, overcapped resistances when you are debuffed and doublecurse (when you choose a defensive second one) of the allstars are not only a bit better than the very, very fine build of Vatinas, to reduce total damage taken:
For example you get often multiples damagetypes and sources, degen and hits or aoe at the same time of one boss or one mob and you have to count the total damage taken in these encounters and moments. And here the Agonyca Allstars are shining and charming hot with double and tripple ehp for all damage types.
7) I don't want forget two advantages of HoP in ehp and defence here at this comparing the tails and arms:
-the Sentinels can take damage as meat shield and can taunt. But only melee and they die fast in some encounters, maps and bosses and there are some disadvantages in playstyle as wrote before and in the build of the allstars spoiler "HoP". So for example HoP have also to deal with chained projectiles and so this advantage is in some other situations very dangerous.
When HoA takes Summon Phantasms-Support in the Allstars have 11 taunting and hindering and meatshielding Phantasms-minions too.
- you can move while cycloning. But as said before, for hard bosses the 2 possibilties of HoA's hybrid style: melee and ranged raising the Herald, is best to deal with high lvl 10x maven invitations, shaper, ueberatziri etc.) and with HoA you can easy switch to cyclone also. The Agonyca Allstars are able to stand outside high damage areas of bosses and stack the virulences ranged. Old HoP must cyclone melee in these damagepeaks.
When the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars take "storm brand" in they obtain almost the same freedom of movement and still don't need to to move into melee distance.
8) Fortify's 20% damagereduction of melee HoP is a minimum of 50% weaker compared against HoA divergent frost shield 30% dr and it's 60% dr against ranged attacks, and the added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs.
Combined with bodyguards/ knockback frostshield's 60% dr get very often op, and much better than fortify's 20% dr.
And also HoP has to attack and hit to trigger fortify, frostshield is triggered also ranged on stun and block and don't need to hit or attack.
9) Other managuardian builds get into problems when their molten shell, guardian skill or vaal discipline is in cooldown - the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars start then with their dodge and spelldodge of vaal grace and withering step for these cooldowns.
10) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, evasion, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, double curses, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc.
Overall
Total the Arachnophobia Allstars have double and tripple ehp against all damagetypes with their 17 walls of defences, and against physical damage quadruple ehp.
You have circa 4× more multipletarget damage and 3x more mappingspeed and 2x more substain / es on block. You loose around 5% singletarget but you can easy balance your damage up if you want to.
You can try both herald-styles easy because both gears work on both herald-mainskills.
Switch perhaps only cyclone with ball-liightnings and circle-rings.
Both styles are very much fun and Vatinas guide is amazing and very well written and explaining all important mechanics quite good!
Wow, that is one highly detailed answer and takes some time to really digest it all. I am quite sold into this one, but how much does the removal of dodge in 3.16 affect the ehp of these two? Items are really similar but passive pathing is like 95% different which is unfortunate if I follow one path and prefer the another playstyle after all x)
Yo, I've been playing super squishy occultists for too many leagues. Already have 140 deaths this league and just want to find a build that doesn't die 5 times per map and scales into lategame. This one seems interesting, but which one should I choose: This or Vatinas? What are the pros / cons between these two? Any other builds that I could consider? I am so close to skipping whole league right now that third 10 act grind would be too much...
Feel your pain, bro. Made an occultist this league again but just enormously tired of squishiness around 74-75 level.
This build is waaaay tankier even on leveling already. I'm level 65, have white gloves (34 itemlevel), blue chest (27 itemlevel) and some random crappy rares from the ground (like leaguecontent-corrupted dagger 6 ilvl from the 1st act lmao).
And I literally die only if really believe in my immortality. I died 6 times for now and 4 times I just yolo run into big packs of everything. 2 because of afking.
You can imagine occultist's survivability with this gear level :D
But I never used Herald of Agony cause people commented here a lot of hard leveling times through this skill. I used Herald of Purity all the way in those crappy white 4-link gloves - HoP + Minion Damage + Summon Phantasm + Added Fire Damage. Plus 4link Storm Brand + Ball Lightning + Chance to Poison + Faster Casting (lol I need to fix this link I suppose :D).
And thats basically all, I don't have any cool items (brought Anvil for, maybe, 1c, that's all). I don't have 6links, don't have actually any other working links. Use steelskin on left mouse button and ~5 levels ago activated Determination.
I have dominating blow in my chest but I don't use it. Just too lazy to use anything except Flame Dash + Arcane Surge besides two 4L I mentioned before.
PoB is little chaotic, but you can find a ton of useful info on 50 page of this topic. It was the most helpful discovery for me here.
Wonder how this build could feel on maps. Because I don't have budget at all :D
https://soundcloud.com/allumino
Last edited by allumino on Oct 25, 2021, 7:33:01 PM
Hi folks, decided to finally play good old fashioned managuardian after wanting to for several leagues but never getting around to it.
I'm almost done with the basic leveling of the character using the Hollow Palm leveling strat(just reached blood aqueducts), and am wondering if any experts can weigh in on what level I should try to get to before I respec into HoAg and take CI/ZO/etc.
I farmed about ~10ex or so on my starter so should be good to buy all the basic essential items to get started - I'm just wondering if anyone has any personal experience to draw on like "don't respec immediately at 68, wait until you're 80" or similar :)
