Crimson Dance is bad - please buff it
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It's right there next to my tree. I want to take it.
What is the value of my own life when it is taken from others so easily? Last bumped on Jan 7, 2021, 2:21:05 AM
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Depending on what you are intending as "buff".
Bleeding works best when the enemy is moving. Giving that Knockback does not count as moving, this made Bleeding a not-so-optimal choice for physical melee builds (by "melee" I mean real melee, the one where you are hand-to-hand with the enemy, not the "melee from afar" of Ancestral Totems, Reave and Lacerate), which either needed to resort to Flee (a terrible mechanic that either must be removed or revamped) or had to go for a "hit & run" strategy. Crimson Dance was introduced with these build in mind. This way, after 8 hits, Bleeding Stacks on the enemies would deliver the same damage an ordinary bleeding would give to an enemy while moving. As Bow builds, Crimson Dance has faded even more in utility with the existance of both Ensnaring Arrow and Kineticism from Delirium - Bows would pretty much always go for standard bleeding this way. Please elaborate. |
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" 26% of Gladiators in Heist take it. Is that a low number? Glad is a BLEED Ascendency. Seems low to me. What is the value of my own life when it is taken from others so easily? Last edited by Noble_Seiken#0706 on Jan 4, 2021, 1:58:42 PM
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" For reference, if an Ascendancy is used by 26% of the playerbase then it's probably FOTM, so no it's not a low number. It just shows that it's not an automatic pick for every Gladiator build which is a good thing. Not every Gladiator is bleed focused to begin with and even those that are can be Bow builds using Ensnaring Arrow or EQ builds (who also use EA sometimes), both are better off using normal bleeds. Crimson Dance is not a damage node that's supposed to flat out buff bleed damage, it's a keystone changing fundamentally how bleed works. If every bleed build took it that would mean normal bleeds are shit and need buffing. I'd say it's in a healthy region usage wise. |
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" Not arguing about it. Gladiator is either a Block-related or Bleed-related ascendancies. It's reasonable if some of them want to use Crimson Dance. I don't understand why 100% of Gladiators would want to get Crimson Dance. For instance, I don't think a Bow Bleed Gladiator would make use of it. While I do understand some playstyle-related keystone out there gives you a significant bonus for a pretty much irrelevant drawback (for example, Ancestral Bond and Runebinder), they are by no way mandatory. I can think about Totem builds that won't reach Ancestral Bond - namely, Ballista builds. Also, it's reasonable for a certain playstyle to not wish for a specific keystone even if it's tailored for it. For example, a Fire build may not be interested in taking Avatar of Fire, despite the keystone is clearly meant to help Fire builds in increasing as much as possible their fire damage output. Or, an ES build may not want to take Wicked Ward - Even though it was the one thing that made Occultist a pretty much mandatory choice for ES builds back where it was exclusive to her - because they care more about leeching/Regenerating ES rather than Recharging. As stated before, Crimson Dance exists to be an alternative to the standard Bleeding mechanic, and was never intended to be mandatory for bleeding builds. Addictionally, the usual Bleeding works better for oneshot-oriented builds, which is pretty much the norm nowadays, so I find reasonable if a melee Bleeding Gladiator don't find a use for it. The fact Lacerate provides extra bonus for bleeding and it's a "Ranged melee" skill does not help. I've read a bit around and, indeed, playerbase was never happy with Crimson Dance's status since its introduction in 3.0. Furthermore, I've failed to find a GGG post here on forum that describes the Devs' feeling about that specific keystone. How, however, do you think we can make the keystone work better without making it mandatory for any bleed build? I was thinking about either a Physical overwhelm or a -x% Physical Resistance, but I believe it to be too strong. P.S. : Thanks Baharoth15 for sharing my feelings toward Crimson Dance Last edited by Maxtrux#0762 on Jan 5, 2021, 4:25:08 AM
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Crimson Dance is a nice more damage on a typical hit melee build IF you have 100% chance to bleed. most phys gems scale phys DoT as well, you get that multiplier 'for free' along your normal hit damage
(ill leave out explanation why 100% chance to bleed is crucial) the problem is - getting 100% chance to bleed is not trivial 'accidentally'. and if you do get it - you go all in with bleeds because strength of bleed builds is not in the damage but safety (dealing damage on the move, and melee has to run around a lot). the higher the attack speed, the higher the chance to bleed the better this keystone is ON A HIT BUILD as a 1-passive more damage BONUS. pure DoT builds dont need it and making a build around it - i do not think its wise. how to change it? keep it along caster no-brainer keystones: 'your chance to bleed is doubled'. it wont do much to DoT builds but it sure will buff phys attack builds enough for it to be an auto-pick Last edited by sidtherat#1310 on Jan 5, 2021, 4:55:44 AM
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The problem is if GGG buffs it too much, especially if it boosts chance to bleed, then impale focused builds will start taking it for cheap extra damage possibly shifting them from strong to op and the whole buff-nerf cascade will start.
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Honestly 26% usage on gladiators sounds fine. I agree that the keystone feels a little weak right now, but if people are using it, good to go?
Don't fix what isn't broken, and all that. Like, I would never consider RT right now, with how easy it is to get 99% accuracy... but some people like it. Last edited by ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 on Jan 5, 2021, 5:38:31 AM
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" I can think of a couple things. The main issue for most people is that it only applies to bosses and difficult rares because they are 1-shotting non-boss mobs. The issue with Bleed Bows is that they are using Assailum, and when they do, CD is out of the question because of the 50% less damage. This is why only melee gladiators are taking it (and even then, only 26% of all glads even though >90% of gladiators are melee). <1% of any other build takes it. This is why I think if they reduced the maximum # of bleed stacks to 3 or 4 and removed the damage reduction, it could work for everybody. I also think a possibility could be if the enemy isn't moving, the 50% less bleeding damage shouldn't apply. If they are, it should. I might think more on this. I hadn't really thought about it. What is the value of my own life when it is taken from others so easily? Last edited by Noble_Seiken#0706 on Jan 5, 2021, 10:57:23 AM
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I think it mostly depends on the skill you're using. Almost all of those 26% gladiators are using Lacerate. Doesn't make much sense to get Crimson Dance for EQ.
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