There is NO USA LAW that exempts you from wearing a mask...

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Toshis8 wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

It's very difficult to get people to go out of their way to prevent something that doesn't affect them directly, even if it can be shown that it will affect them indirectly. I am absolutely certain were I not vulnerable I would be a lot more lax about it all, especially here in NSW, Australia, where we've dodged the bullet (again), at least for now. No community transmission cases for half a week now. Not for lack of trying...

It's equally difficult to convince people that appropriate prevention's ultimate goal is to seem useless in hindsight. That flippant 'see, it was all for nothing' isn't a declaration of futility, but an unspoken 'it could have been a lot worse'.

Now over in the US? With those numbers, I reckon you'd be an absolute idiot not to wear a mask in public. Not to sanitise your hands frequently. Not to isolate where possible. Not because the mortality rate is 'so low' or the recovery rate 'so high', but because the effort to reduce getting it still outweighs the potential experience of it. Even directly. And that's not even taking into account the whole 'thinking of others' part of prevention, but I've already covered why that's so hard to get most people to do. We are tiny creatures with tiny worlds, tiny duties and responsibilities. A few times in our tiny lives we brush against the truly global, and it is terrifying.

Sometimes i wonder: is humanity learning and improving itself? Are we any better than people 50 or 100 years ago? Sometimes its very hard to see that change, no matter how hard i try.

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The_Impeacher wrote:

I only enter stores with mask requirements. No requirement, no business from me.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I don't mean to try and imply your are being naïve, but unfortunately it doesn't have to do with "understanding" or "being careful". NOTHING prevents COVID. All you can do is reduce risk as much as possible. People do understand this. They just choose to weigh the risk in their actions. Sure there are some nutballs you see on a plane acting insane, or purposely filming themselves defiantly walking into a Walmart to make a point and get views on Insta/Facebook. This isn't the situation for Millions of Americans (and likely the entire world as COVID surges again).

From a personal standpoint, I live in IL, just outside Chicago. Our Governor is & has been, very strict, and currently you cannot even indoor dine in many cities in the State. It might snow over this weekend into Monday/Tuesday, and outdoor dining won't be possible any longer into the winter. It's likely in a month or two we will be looking at a near complete elimination of the entire food & bar industry in a massive American City. Hundreds of thousands will be out of work. If you are a bar owner, or small restaurant owner, what do you do? Do you defy the mandate from the Governor and stay open, or do you throw away your whole life and go out of business?

I don't want to be too pessimistic here, but I am cynical. I do think there is a very large chance that you see a revolt against COVID-19 restrictions as people face real, life changing, decisions as this drags on. There will be a breaking point, I just don't know exactly where it will begin. Wearing a mask helps reduce spread, but it doesn't keep your employer in business. Staying home keeps Grandma alive, but being evicted from your house puts your kids on the street.

I don't have good answers to any of this. It's likely we will have a vaccine in 2021, and that it's effective rate will be around 50% (like a normal flu-vaccine). In the US, many polls show that only around 50% of the population will be willing to get it. So you are looking at an effective inoculation rate around 25%. Point is COVID ain't going away, and people are pushed to the brink already.

This sounds fucking terrible, but I'm not sure permanently harming the economy, putting millions out of work, having millions homeless, millions food insecure, and more, is worth the 3% that may die, or potential healthcare facilities being overwhelmed. If you are sick stay home. If you are at risk stay home. If you need a hospital hopefully a bed is available. This is the best we can do. We cannot stay shutdown, we cannot stagnate the economy and kill business, we cannot shatter everyone's ability to make a living and support their children. If we try to do this, it will fail.

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Toshis8 wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I don't mean to try and imply your are being naïve, but unfortunately it doesn't have to do with "understanding" or "being careful". NOTHING prevents COVID. All you can do is reduce risk as much as possible. People do understand this. They just choose to weigh the risk in their actions. Sure there are some nutballs you see on a plane acting insane, or purposely filming themselves defiantly walking into a Walmart to make a point and get views on Insta/Facebook. This isn't the situation for Millions of Americans (and likely the entire world as COVID surges again).

From a personal standpoint, I live in IL, just outside Chicago. Our Governor is & has been, very strict, and currently you cannot even indoor dine in many cities in the State. It might snow over this weekend into Monday/Tuesday, and outdoor dining won't be possible any longer into the winter. It's likely in a month or two we will be looking at a near complete elimination of the entire food & bar industry in a massive American City. Hundreds of thousands will be out of work. If you are a bar owner, or small restaurant owner, what do you do? Do you defy the mandate from the Governor and stay open, or do you throw away your whole life and go out of business?

I don't want to be too pessimistic here, but I am cynical. I do think there is a very large chance that you see a revolt against COVID-19 restrictions as people face real, life changing, decisions as this drags on. There will be a breaking point, I just don't know exactly where it will begin. Wearing a mask helps reduce spread, but it doesn't keep your employer in business. Staying home keeps Grandma alive, but being evicted from your house puts your kids on the street.

I don't have good answers to any of this. It's likely we will have a vaccine in 2021, and that it's effective rate will be around 50% (like a normal flu-vaccine). In the US, many polls show that only around 50% of the population will be willing to get it. So you are looking at an effective inoculation rate around 25%. Point is COVID ain't going away, and people are pushed to the brink already.

This sounds fucking terrible, but I'm not sure permanently harming the economy, putting millions out of work, having millions homeless, millions food insecure, and more, is worth the 3% that may die, or potential healthcare facilities being overwhelmed. If you are sick stay home. If you are at risk stay home. If you need a hospital hopefully a bed is available. This is the best we can do. We cannot stay shutdown, we cannot stagnate the economy and kill business, we cannot shatter everyone's ability to make a living and support their children. If we try to do this, it will fail.

What if we completely removed protective measures? Infection rate would rapidly increase, more and more people got sick quickly, leaving empty work places. Who is going to run that restaurant, if your chef is dying in hospital bed? Or who is going to work at that factory, if your workers are sick and cant show up. I wonder, maybe there would be even harder impact on bussiness, if infection rate was faster? I am not 100% sure. But i agree with you, situation is really shitty. We have vaccine from common flu for nearly 100 years, yet we didnt get rid of it after all these years. Covid wont magically dissapear over night once vaccine is ready. We will have to adapt. Wearing a mask or disinfecting your hands doesnt hurt anyone, yet some people refuse to do that on principle.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Basic human nature doesn't change, but our concept of society, family, community...those definitely change.

Just wait until the aliens arrive. Then you'll see an unprecedented unity amongst humankind, guaranfuckinteed.

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“Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.”

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Just wait until the aliens arrive. Then you'll see an unprecedented unity amongst humankind, guaranfuckinteed.